I believe the spirit of Christ is my new nature

Nature is to be "born that way" - there is nothing we can do about it.

Born in Adam, we were born with a sinful nature - held captive by Satan, desiring only sin, sinners.

Born in Christ, we are born with a spiritual nature - now belong to The Good Shepherd, desire God and His ways, the old sinful nature is gone, now we are Children of God - NOT sinners.

Now, the restoring of our souls is needed to be done which is accomplished by The Word of God WITH The Holy Spirit of God teaching us - line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little so that we can know and understand the perfect Will of God and have the power to do it.

Eventually, our bodies will be redeemed on the day Jesus Christ returns and resurrects us out of our graves. Until then, we as children are to keep learning how to walk by the Spirit (by the renewing our our minds) so we do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

So you are basically saying that the spirit is perfect, but we must learn Everyday to walk in that perfectness?

To live and believe in the spirit of Christ is to have a renewed mind and heart but if you think it is a one time revelation you would be mistaken. While I know Peterlag believes one can live this life without sin at all I do agree with a lot of his points.

The revelation that our flesh is irrelevant in the spirit and mind of Christ is a crucial point, what one thinks is from their inner being what one says comes from their mind and what one does comes from the heart.

To have and live in the spirit of Christ is to release yourself of the fleshly chains you have carried=at least this is one view of it, the other is how Jesus carried the cross and the burden of the world, he didn't free himself of the chains he was placed in but took it and delt with it with the mind and heart of father.

I do believe one can live in the spirit and mind of Christ but my concern is if a person who like me is always worried about their sins and their wqeakness and is afraid, it isn't always easy to explain to someone like that how grace works or what it means to live in the spirit and mind of Christ, there is always a part of every person who whispers doubt and fear.

Now as for if the soul resides in the mind itself I do not know but the mind of Christ and his spirit of Christ is of itself not in the mind because it is not our mind we are taken pon.
To seel such a spirit and mind is honorable I just don't want anyone to seek it and fall short thus beginning to be affected negatively

Peterlag said:

The problem I see is I believe to renew the mind in both Romans and Ephesians deal with putting on the mind of Christ which I believe is walking in the spirit.

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I understand what you are saying.

However, I believe God is very specific in how words appear in His Word. He has a purpose for every word ... to whom He says it, what He says, when He says it, where He says it, why He says it. We cannot just decide on our own that what was written in Eph 4:23 really belongs in Rom 12:2 and just outright change what God has said.

It might interest you to know that the word "renewing" in Romans 12:2 is the Greek word anakainōsei, which is derived of two Greek words ... ana and kainōsei (a derivative of kainós). ana means "up, upward" and kainós means " a renewal, a complete change for the better".

From HELPS Word-studies:



The word "renewed" in Ephesians 4:23 is the Greek word ananeoō which is, again, derived of two Greek words ... ana (same ana as shown above) ... and Greek word néos which means "new, recent".

From HELPS Word-studies:



Do you really believe that when God used the word anakainōsei in Rom 12:2, He really meant to use the word ananeoō but just made a mistake? I do not believe this is the case. God used the word anakainōsei properly and it is up to us to humble ourselves before Him and allow Him to reveal to us why that word is proper in Rom 12:2 and why the word ananeoō is properly utilized in Eph 4:23.

Peterlag said:

Just about everyone else seems to think it means to clean up their flesh.

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While there may be some who think this, I do not believe everyone (or even "just about everyone") believes this.

I think there are some who know it is futile to even try to "clean up their flesh". Believe it or not, Peterlag, there are many believers who do know what it is to be transformed by the renewing of your mind and what it is to "walk in the spirit".

You do realize you are not the only believer who renews your mind and who walks in the Spirit???

So you don't really believe what God has revealed to Christians through Paul. "If our old nature thinks" is not the reality. The old nature has not been eradicated therefore it does indeed fight against the new nature. And that is exactly what the Bible says:

GALATIANS 5: THE BATTLE BETWEEN THE FLESH AND THE SPIRIT

1. THE FLESH IS PRESENT IN ALL CHRISTIANS
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

2. CHRISTIANS ARE COMMANDED TO WALK IN THE SPIRIT
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

3. THE WORKS (OR SINS) OF THE FLESH ARE LISTED
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

4. THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT ARE ALSO LISTED
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

5. THE FLESH MUST BE CRUCIFIED
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

So to blithely claim that because the Spirit of Christ (the Holy Spirit) is within every believer, there is no battle between the flesh and the Spirit is to deny truth and deny spiritual reality, and falsely claim to be sinlessly perfect. At the same time the flesh cannot have dominion over the believer because of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

I'm not into the works of the flesh. My flesh was crucified in Christ. Put me down for walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Both of your Greek words fit with my renewed mind thinking. I don't see a contradiction. But you have my attention if you can expound on what your point is.

I think you're still looking at this thing with your old man thinking. The old man does not try to walk in perfectness. The thing is dead. Crucified in Christ. Yet you guys still want to drag this dead body around with you.

You sound as if you don't believe you a trinity, just like God? You are a spirit, you have a soul, and your live in a body.

Our body remains with us now, its our house. Romans 8 tells us we are waiting for the redemption of that body into the one that Christ had after he resurrected.

What happens when you deny the faith of Christ that works in the believers? Can Christ deny Himself if he has paid the wage of sin in whole.

How many times does he have to get up on the cross.

Some taste and experience but then they can try and do the work of their own which the bile calls dead works (no faith coming from God ) natural mankind's dead faith offered towards Him. This is seeing faith cannot be separated from works Impossible) .We are saved by Christ's work of faith, his labor of love. Not of a work we could do.

The living loving commandment is to believe Him not seen. .It works in those who can believe. not just a good suggestion.

Hebrews 6:1-6 King James Version (KJV)Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith "toward" God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

A few verses down. . . our blessed assurance. Better things accompany salvation .He promises us who will not be found with a righteousness of our own . . . . he will not forget the good works we attribute toward his name .

Peterlag said:

Both of your Greek words fit with my renewed mind thinking. I don't see a contradiction.

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God's Word is what stands. And when you decide in your [un]"renewed mind thinking" that you can change what is written in Rom 12:2 because you "don't see a contradiction", that is not proper workmanship. We can't mix our thoughts/ideas in with God's Word and conclude we still have God's Word. We don't ... all we have is man's reasonings.

The "renewed mind thinking" believer takes God's Word as written and casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought captive to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor 10:5).

Peterlag said:

But you have my attention if you can expound on what your point is.

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The point is we do not realize there is a difference between the "renewing" of Rom 12:2 and the "renewed" of Eph 4:23 because we read the words in english. In english, "renewing" and "renewed" appear to be the same thing with the exception of the suffix ["ing" and "ed"].

We do the same thing when we read the word "love" in Scripture without understanding that there are different Greek words which are translated into the english word "love". Example: In John 21:15-17, two times Jesus asked Peter if Peter loved [Greek agapao] Him and Peter answered that he loved [phileo] Jesus. the third time Jesus asked Peter, Jesus asked him if he loved [phileo] Him and Peter replied that he loved [phileo] Him. Without understanding the nuances in the Greek text, we would not see the difference. And it behooves us to search out these truths in order that we might come to a more perfect understanding of the Word of God.


Without looking at the Greek text, we would not know that there were two different words used in Rom 12:2 and Eph 4:23.

Below is from Vines Expository Dictionary:





As far as the usage of the two different words ... in Rom 12:2, the emphasis is on the transformation which takes place in the life of the born again one as the renewing of the mind takes place ... and this must occur before we can "put off" the old man in order that we are renewed in the spirit of our mind so we can put on the "new man". Please note that the letter to the Ephesians is written to those who are faithful in Christ Jesus (Eph 1:1). The transforming by the renewing of the mind of Rom 12:2 works to our being faithful in Christ. Those who are faithful in Christ are instructed to put off the old man, be renewed in the spirit of the mind, and put on the new man (Eph 4:22-24).

Sometimes, it is good to ponder and meditate upon verses and allow God to work in our hearts to bring increase so we understand what He wants us to know ...

I can't read or understand the greek but I do think you have made some amazing points, the issue with the english translation is that it takes away much of the deeper meaning of the greek words which can cause confusion.

We are told to keep our thoughts on heavenly things and I have noticed when I do this day by day I can feel myself being more happy more at peace more intuned with God I just feel better in general, perhaps this is what the difference is when speaking of a renewed mind and renewing the mind. If one recieves the holy spirit their already renewed we are born again but even the most faithful of the apostles would always keep speaking of the imprtance of our ways and thoughts because they themselves knew the dangers of being complacent.

This is one thing I think we are to notice, and why there is a difference in a renwed mind and the renweing of the mind, even the english words for them show it.

Renewed is to be recreated reborn remade and done renewing is the process of that and the daily changing of it, but we are not saved and do not walk in the spirit simply by doing this it cannot be done because our salvation everything we are and have in Christ is all his doing not ours.

To live in the spirit one must understand this otherwise it seems more like a work of the flesh really

What was the red pill that you took? How did you come by it?

Can we listen and still learn? The new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. This flesh has never been changed YET. So.. there is and always will be a battle between both. To say there is none.. would be lying. This is not something one can just "I disagree" on. The simple fact if we say we have no sin we deceive our selfs and the truth is not in us.

Like Paul said.. its no longer I that sin but the sin that is in me. And we have not been changed to be as He is. God sees us righteous pure holy because we believe in Jesus. This is why we can come boldly before Him and why we are seated in heavenly places. But this comes at a price. To die daily every moment to the flesh. A battle every moment of ever day. We because of Christ are no longer slaves to sin. It is still in us.

all sin is spiritual? 'flesh' is just a spiritual category it's not something physical. it's about rising above to the heavenly or falling below the worldly. it's better to rise above the worldly, but it's better to be worldly and not know Christ than to know Christ and fall below... but there is plenty of chance to change your direction

The flesh does not try? No work of faith as a labor of Love for our savior?

Did you mean before the conversion the flesh the not try to appease the word of God?

The old man in Jesus was part of the thought process. He did not do the will of the flesh (old man) he worked with the father doing the will of the father "perfectly" without sin.

If we say we have not or do not sin by falling short of the the glory of God we simply make God into the liar and not us .(1 John )

We are saved and kept by the same "hearing of Christ faith" that works in us. God's Spirit working mutually in every believer called the same spirit of faith as it is written

Don't be like the foolish Galatians .That can be found in Chapter 3.

A fool says there is not God in their heart. Christian do act foolishly and are forgiven. Remember when we do deny the faith of Christ that works in us he cannot deny he has paid the wage in full.

The sins (many) are not imputed to us .We trust in his work of faith or labor of love. Not of our own self. Why murmur rather than beleive? ?

Did Jesus murmur when he worked with the father. Or being yoked with the father it made the burden lighter (sabbath rest)

Philippians 2:13-14 King James Version (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

All sin is spiritual recognized by the physical "what the eyes see". ( the temporal)

Sin does have a likeness or outward representative . . . . dying flesh and blood

The whole creation is corrupted from the beginning (day 3) .Mankind has corrupted His way of faith. (the unseen will) .

The flesh of Jesus was signified as sinful. A sinful representation must be made in order to do what the letter of the law (death) could not do. Reveal the law of faith the unseen eternal law.

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (law of faith the unseen) hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Therefore both the seen and the unseen working together (mixing faith) They both make the "one perfect or complete law. Christ in us. The just and justifier.

Apart from each other .Death

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

He does the cleaning. He has the power we have in these corrupted earthen bodies. . But he does not do the work alone. Some murmur and say they have no work to do because they do not sin. ?

Makes me wonder why some say they do not have to work ? The commandment seems clear. "work out your own salvation" with Emanuel.

Philippians 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: