Yet you do it constantly. Must be a case of do as I say and not as I do.
In the first place, I was asking a legitimate question to CS1.
It was you who ascribed the "childish and mean-spirited" motive, when there is actually none.
The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues
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In the first place, I was asking a legitimate question to CS1.
It was you who ascribed the "childish and mean-spirited" motive, when there is actually none.
Good morning Sir.
How do you know that Christians before 1900 lack the speaking of tongues? Do the Holy Spirit revealed this to you?
To the New Creation( Christians), GOD doesn't hold any spiritual gifts from them. For it is written, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms (Ephesians 1:3)." This include speaking in Tongues.
Again it is written, "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue (2 Peter 1:3)."
Brother, take note of the underline words. You can only know this things through the Holy Spirit who lives in us. Many are still ignorance of this. The LORD says, "My people are destroy for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6).
Blessed be the Name of the LORD for ever and ever.
For it is written, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms (Ephesians 1:3)." This include speaking in Tongues.
Again it is written, "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue (2 Peter 1:3)."
The LORD says, "My people are destroy for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6).
Again it is written, "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue (2 Peter 1:3)."
The LORD says, "My people are destroy for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6).
Good morning brother, I spoke from the teaching that called baptism with the Holy Spirit and as Sign for it the gift of speaking in tongues. Later it was add that it is for empowerment for the ministry.
This I cant find practised before 1900
And I cant find that any biblical writer taught this.
It seems that speaking in tongues in the church has stopped in the First centurys.
Out of in some cults,like montanism 160 till around 6th century it is seldom mentioned.
And you can find it again more then from 17th century on in some movements which we would called sect.
But non of them taught it as an proof to be baptised with the Holy Spirit. This we find 1st time in Topeka in 1900. Otherwise Afnes Ozman would not be called the First Person who received it.
You are attempting to take away the gospel understanding and accredit it to the unknown . Those who literalize the spiritual signified understanding . (no faith)
The bible defines the words . Using it simply show me why you think making a noise that makes up nothing as far as a understanding proves something that cause men to fall backward bragging how they have been filled with judgement . . "slain in the spirit"?
The foundation of the doctrine is still in Isaiah 28. Yet for all that some men(faithless ) seek the oral traditions of men as a source of self edifying wonderment .and say all things written in the law and the prophets is for babies /
Why complicate the matter rather than walking by faith . Nothing (unknown) proves nothing . Are you seeking after wonders fill ups rather than walking by faith? ?
Acts 24: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Nothing proves Zero . They walked away in unbelief no faith alone as it is wriiten
The sign spoken of in 1 Corinthian 14 represents the foundation of the law Isaiah 28. It speaks of those who think they can obey two teaching authorities as one Master. . (prophecy and the oral traditions as a law of the fathers ).
One that is limited to prophecy and the other (the gospel) . and the other .We will not hearken to sola scriptura but what ever word that come form our own mouths .Those who reject prophecy with their new wonderful teaching authority .The unknown. Just believe nothing use your imagination and see no evil in mocking the spirit of judgment. Those who make a sound and fall backward.
Jeremiah 44:16-1y King James Version (KJV) As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
Which teaching master will you serve today? Prophecy (sola scriptura) or the oral tradition of men that do make prophecy without effect?
That seems to be the problem with those who try and prove something without a witness . Tongues, prophecy of God was never . . make a noise without a witness to what is being said. ( “Saw lasaw saw lasaw Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw Ze’er sham ze’er sham Abra Kadabra ” )
Turning the spiritual unseen gifts that work in these bodies of death into what they call "sign (look at me I did it) gifts".
Our new born again tongue that we are sent out with when spreading the incorruptible seed is offered in a hope that Christ would work in the person quickening their new soul with his understanding . It, prayer and fasting (the gospel) alone can drive out the spirit of lies the spirit of unbelief (no faith) not little none.
The idea of the unknown noise driving out the spirit of lies has to do with a evil generation that seeks after sighs as lying wonders.
Mark 16:16-18 King James Version (KJV) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Taking up serpents; a metaphor for the brood of vipers the Pharisees with Sadducees .
The believer with his new tongue will not be deceived by the false prophecy of false apostles. "called drinking any deadly thing" . Words have meaning attached to them .
No, I'm telling you that you invented that meaning for 'prophecy' and that your meaning is wrong.
Just like I invented it for Christian?
Should be easy to prove just offer a few verses that speak of God's prophecy and not that of men seen . And then we can discuss better. Other wise I am left to wonder??/
I would say prophecy is declaring the understandable will of tongue of God . Have you looked that foundation of the Law?
Or who needs law when they have philosophical theories.
The circle law of faith brings it right back to the beginning. "Nothing proves nothing" .Unknown tongues simply prove nothing .
Believing God show we have been filled with the spirit. No such thing as self edifying . . look I did it signs.
Someone it seems is filled with wonderments. Jesus calls them a evil generation
Yes. You invented a definition for "Christian" and you argue like it's the widely-accepted meaning. It isn't.
Another perfect example; there is no "circle law of faith" in Scripture. Many months ago, I introduced the term, "circular reasoning" to our conversation. You didn't understand what the term means, and instead of searching out its true meaning, you invented one for your own use, and now you use your invented meaning as though it is a sound and valid scriptural concept.
That's beyond ridiculous.
The problem with people in the old testament is the same as it is today. It has never been a problem of having lack of written word (otherwise everyone without a bible would have excuse, and Moses and every prophet would have been doomed for lack of the written word).
The problem is that no matter how much word is written down, or how many prophets God sends, or how many miracles are done, or how many healings are performed, or even if God pours out his spirit on millions of people causing them to speak in tongues (fullfilling Isaiah 28:11) some people refuse to believe God is a living, working, caring about them, TALKING God. They remove God to some far away place and say "You blaspheme if you say God spoke to you"...and then they serve dumb (not talking) idols of religion, or pleasure, or beliefs of their own making.
The problem is unwillingness to interact directly with God....always wanting something between them and God...to be and stay separate from God...whether by lusts and pleasures of this world, or by keeping a prophet like Moses between them and God (saying "Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.")...or how they do it nowadays with the bible itself saying "Oh no, we don't need to interact directly with God. We've got his bible and that's all we need. We don't need to hear God speak. We don't need his spirit talking in our churches (either by prophecy for the group, or tongues for the individual). And we despise those who even claim to have such things."
I apologize for the length and perhaps the tone of this particular reply but this upsets me (stirs me up, provokes me).
God is real. God speaks. God works miracles. He tells us of things to come. He tells us of things in the past. He reveals the deep things of God (things that are NOT detailed in the bible). He never said "I will not show you things unless they are written in the Bible". He never even said we need a bible. Yet MAN says "What was lacking was a Bible." Paul didn't need a bible. Moses didn't need a bible. Jesus didn't need a bible. Peter didn't need a bible. The prophets didn't need a bible. The children of Israel didn't need a bible. No one in the entire new testament needed a bible. YOU don't even claim to need a bible (except if you want to become a hypocrite). Otherwise no one could have been saved until the bible was fully written AND they'd read it fully. Therefore, a bible is not what is needed, nor does it fulfill 1 Corinthians 13:10.
Ugh.. there is so much more to be said on this.
In love of God for you,
Kelby
The difficulty is not with spiritual unseen gifts that work in the believed to both will and do the good pleasure of God .
But the idea of" sign gifts". Two words that are never used to represent faith (the unseen )For hopes for that which is seen ( I did it) other than sign and or with wonder seekers .
Jesus called them a evil generation They said to Jesus do self edifying circus seal miracle and then we will believe .No faith involved. No living hope .
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Remember wondering is not believing. . . its wondering
But gave the comand to write down his revealations, what we call bible. At moment I read the didache. Letters from churchfathers. I find a lot o advises and encouragement. And even how to different between false and right prophets, but what I cant find are hints to the gift of speaking in tongues. If speaking in tongues would Play the role which pentecostal/charismatic claimes it does. I would expect that would be taught to the believers as encouragement.
If you claim that God reveals to you things which have to come, then what do you mean?
Kelby I unterstand that this matter stirrs you up.
Well, i belong Not to those people which denys that God is speaking to his childern individuell. And also I use to speak to God directly in my prayer and I dont need someone between.
Sorry if I correct you. Isajah 28,11 has nothing to do with speaking in tongues from People. At First the Contest says that God means his Volk of Israel and second he is the One who speaks to them in foreign tongues.
If I am Not wong then God gave Moses and all the other writers the order to write his words down. Of course the NT writer like Paul ore Peter had no bible out of the OT. But because they had the OT, they could explain the OT and what it said about the messajah and much more.
Paul and Peter had no bible(NT), but God used them to write the NT. Through revealations he only gave them. Paul God different, then Peter ore John.
And yes, we need the bible, otherwise everybody can come and tell everything and claime it as truth and from God. About those people the bible warns us!!
Btw, I read the didache and some from the first churchfathers. Nowwhere speaking in tongues is mentioned which I would expect if this were an important issue for to benefit and encourage the Church. I found mentioned how to distinct between false and real prophets. But no speaking in tongues in the church and also not as a sign for to be baptised with the Holy Spirit. More that waterbaptism has an high value.
I belive that the bible is finish written and sufficent for to be saved and for to know how we as christian should live.
Wrong on both counts.
Fulfillment of prophecy proves prophecy.
Evidence does not necessarily demand a verdict. Evidence is just evidence. Sometimes there is so much evidence that to avoid a verdict is simply foolish; that's why Josh McDowell entitled his book, "Evidence That Demands A Verdict"; the evidence for Christ is overwhelming. In most cases, there is just a small amount of evidence, and no conclusion is necessitated.
For example, if I show a video of a person speaking in tongues, and another person giving the interpretation, will you believe in the present-day operation of the gift of tongues? No, because you don't consider the evidence sufficient to demand a verdict.
To prophecy is to declare the will of God. Fulfilling it is one of the functions .Comparing prophecy the unseen understanding hid in parables to the same . . faith to faith Not comparing one sign and wonder to another .
Some call it a "sign gift". Look I did it I self edified myself
1 Corinthians 2: 13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (Hid in parables)
Evidence is just evidence. Nothing (wonderments) prove nothing
Will those that believe in the present-day operation as a oral tradition of man that they call gift of tongues as sign gift (I did it) ? Will they look to the foundation of the law. Isaiah 28 or yet for all that they still make a noise falling backwards mocking the spirit of Judgment Holding tightly with both hands to the wonders .The same law revisited in 1 Corinthians 14
God Wants to Help His People
Isaaiah 28: 9-13 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”[b]
So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.
In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”
But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”
When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.
Not the goal of my faith .Wonderful fill ups for others
S
Scribe
Guest
Paul was quoting from Isaiah quite often. They were indeed reading from the scriptures.
There is no such thing as a time when the first church was without scripture, waiting for the New Testament writers to replace the scriptures that already existed. Paul was teaching constantly from the scriptures and revealing Jesus Christ in books like Isaiah. They were being fed scriptures daily. They did not use the gifts of the Spirit to replace scripture. That was not the purpose of the gifts of the Spirit then, and it is not the purpose of the gifts of the Spirit now.
The gift of prophesy in the New Testament church is not the same thing as an Old Testament Prophet writing scriptures.
It is not that complicated people. One has to try hard to mess this up. LOL
S
Scribe
Guest
" And God has placed in the church" It is very important to catch that Paul is talking about gifts operating in the Church assembly. Not everyone is going to operate in the gift of tongues in the church assembly. However we see ALL 120 speaking in tongues on the Day of Pentecost, All of the Ephesians disciples, All those with Cornelius. How do we reconcile the fact that they ALL spoke in tongues and Paul asking "Do all speak in tongues?" We might answer Paul.. "Why yes Paul all 120 on the day of Pentecost spoke in tongues.." or "Yes, Paul in Cornelius house all those gathered with him that believed spoke in tongues.." And Paul would say to you.. "yes but in the CHURCH only two or three and with an interpreter". Scriptures must reconcile.
One must answer the question why ALL in the upper room spoke in tongues if it is true that not everyone is able to receive this gift. And the answer is that Paul was not meaning that everyone is not able to receive this gift but rather IN THE CHURCH not everyone will speak in tongues, not if done decently and in order they won't.
Prophecy is the tongue of God by which he reveals' his will to flesh and blood>. The Old testament saints has the same spirit of faith working in them to both will and do the god pleasure of our Savior .Christ is us a we do today . Without that spirit of faith we would have no mediator between the denominations as well as individual brothers and sisters . We all wear the same armor of faith .
2 Corinthians 4:13-14 King James Version (KJV) We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
No division in the body .
No such thing as "sign gift". Spiritual gifts unseen by the work of spirit working within . . . yes.
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.