Not By Works

1 John 5:13 reads, " I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. "

This verse is in the present tense. It says nothing about continuing to believe.

Amen to that.....very self righteous indeed.....

Like Paul said....Jesus came to save sinners of whom I am chief!

He did not come to the self righteous that constantly peddle how good they are and how much they love God more than we do!

Same here....this worldly Kum Ba Yah love peddled by false religionists, salvation losers and Jesus devaluers is no where near biblical! Nor will I embrace anyone that peddles a gospel that has no power to save a flea, much less a man......love and truth go hand in hand.....and this skewed mushy worldly love has crept into the Lord's churches and watered down the truth and the absolute stance we are to make against false teachers that make two fold the disciples of hell!

May we persevere and ensure salvation both for our self and for those who hear us.

"Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you" (1 Timothy 4:16).

it is hurting my heart if the truth be known...

A lot of people are convinced that Judas was a believer who at some point stopped believing. But in here Jesus speaks about Judas, that he wasn't a believer from the start. He doesn't say the name but it's clear that it's about him:

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

I find this hard to argue. Continuing in the next verse, Jesus expounds on election, confirming for us that Judas wasn't one of the elect.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Judas was not given.

In regards to 1 Timothy 4:16, we are not passive in perservering in our faith, but it's not in our own power that we perservere. (1 Corinthians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 1:21-22; 1 Peter 1:5) God alone saves, but "in a sense" we save ourselves and others through perserverance in sound doctrine, as we continue to believe the gospel and are used as God's instruments to bring about the salvation of others through preaching the gospel to them as well.

If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down and rope and pulled you out, "in a sense" you could say that you "saved yourself" by choosing to grab and hold onto the rope until that person pulled you out, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out of the well saved you and ultimately, it is Jesus Christ who saves us.

You judge that Judas was not given because he left. If you leave later in life as Judas did, then you were never given either, right? The standard you apply to others should be also applied to you. If a believer leaves, they were never given.

Jesus knew from the beginning of Judas decision to steal rather than believe.

It’s the Father’s WILL that NONE perish but that all come to eternal life. Who is called? All. Who is chosen/elect? All who decide to come.

It does puzzle me why anyone would think Judas was ever saved

The topic/idea does come up from time to time; I have stood against it repeatedly.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Judas became lost after he was given to Jesus.

Can you provide a Scripture verse that plainly shows Judas doing these things, as opposed to him simply being sent out with the others for that purpose? And even if he had done those things, Jesus says Judas was unclean, and called Judas a son of perdition which means he was damned/doomed to destruction. You believe Judas was cleansed and then changed his mind, but Scripture does not bear this out.

"I never knew you (as one of my own)" would apply here

You judge that Judas was not given because he left. If you leave later in life as Judas did, then you were never given either, right? The standard you apply to others should be also applied to you. If a believer leaves, they were never given.

Jesus knew from the beginning of Judas decision to steal rather than believe.

It’s the Father’s WILL that NONE perish but that all come to eternal life. Who is called? All. Who is chosen/elect? All who decide to come.

Judas was not given.

Luke 9 says Jesus appointed the 12 to go out and do these things. Judas was among them. Scripture bears me out.

That which is clean can again become dirty. Scripture says Judas started to steal from the money box. That was the point where he started to depart. He gave in to temptation. That was the beginning Jesus knee of before the others knew.

When Jesus said that night that one would betray him, none of them knew it was Judas. If he was never saved, they would have known. He was no different at first but changed his mind. And Judas actually left them. Jesus didn’t stop him nor leave him. That’s my point.

If a person wanted to leave, Jesus always let them go. He didn’t change his direction and go with the one leaving. The 70 left him. He didn’t go with any of them nor convince them to come back.

Do you want those verses?

Aren't we all lost before we surrender our will and our lives to Him? When did Judas do that?

Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not.

Judas was given.

Election and free will are not mutually exclusive, we cannot pit fight election against free will. Jesus has called Judas a devil, and stated twice that Judas didn't believe and that He knew this from the beginning. How to extrapolate from this that Judas was a believer who stopped believing?

What scripture do you prove this by?

Judas surrendered his life and will to Jesus leaving everything to follow him. He later took it back. This is putting your hand to the plow and looking back. The condition of such a person is worse than an unbeliever.

Judas did not forsake his sinful nature to follow Jesus. How is that surrendering his will and life?

Following someone because you think you can profit from them is like those Jesus
retreated from because they only wanted to be fed physically and not spiritually.