Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

Pulie

Active member
#138,181
May 26, 2020
216
94
28
#138,181
eternally-gratefull said:
Let’s put it this was

if the Bible says I have been saved

yet in the end, I may not be saved.

then I am not really saved at all

as the scripture says, salvation has come, it is not comming
Click to expand...
Okay I am saved on the basis of salvation through faith in Christ, however, at the end salvation through Christ will not be enough to get me saved? Is that what your saying?

What is the requirements to finally being saved at the end?

Please refer me to scriptures and that way I will understand your interpretation of the particular texts.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#138,182
#138,182
Pulie said:
Okay I am saved on the basis of salvation through faith in Christ, however, at the end salvation through Christ will not be enough to get me saved? Is that what your saying?

What is the requirements to finally being saved at the end?

Please refer me to scriptures and that way I will understand your interpretation of the particular texts.
Click to expand...
Wow,

no You did not understand me at all.

i am saved, and I will be saved, that is salvation

i have the seal of the spirit as my pledge from God to assure it
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#138,183
#138,183
ReturnedtoChrist said:
I can see now that we are saved by grace. I was taught the opposite in the cult I had been involved in before whereby it was works and the amount of preaching work you did that earned salvation and merit from them too. However, I still have a problem with the scriptures which say that people committing sin will not be saved, e.g. 1 Cor 6:9-11:

"9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. "

So how can we be saved by mercy and grace if we continue on in our sins?
Click to expand...
How many sins does it take for a person to be deemed a sinner in Gods view?

as James said, if we keep the whole law yet stumble in just one part, we are guilty of the whole law. Which would make us a sinner if we just stumble one time,

so the answer is, we are all sinners
 
P

Pulie

Active member
#138,184
May 26, 2020
216
94
28
#138,184
dcontroversal said:
The usage of the word in context dictates how it is to be viewed....note that one represents a "thing" while the other represents the action that has taken place.....

I.E. Salvation as a THING is found only in Christ.....but the result of trusting into that thing (salvation in Christ) is->>one has BEEN SAVED (PAST TENSE AND A COMPLETED ACTION with PRESENT CONTINUING RESULTS)

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Note dual usage above.....

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Also will mention that sanctification is dual usage...one is positional in Christ eternally at the moment of salvation, while the other aspect is based upon growth, maturity, is subject to successes and failures and deals with fellowship and maturity!
Click to expand...
Thank you

The grace message has really liberated me Then I came across some parts of Bible, where it tells me I have to work out my own salvation (Phil 2:12-18) and that faith without works is dead(Jam 2:14-25), while on the other hand the author of 1John sounds very strict, although not entirely so(1John2:3-6)and Hebrews also tells me that I have to be diligent(Heb6:11) etc.

I also noticed that Jesus rejected false prophets who did not know him and referred to them as evil doers(Math7:15-23).

The churches emphasizing the law doctrine makes me feel like I have to work hard in order to earn God's love, while on the other hand the churches emphasizing the grace doctrine makes me feel like it is okay to indulge in sin. Well am not referring to all churches. That is the weaknesses I have noticed from those who are on the extreme ends of both doctrines.

I also realized that there is a spirit behind every form of extremism, am not referring to demons but rather to the aura that comes from extremism.

People who emphasize the law seem angry,self righteous, not accepting, controlling etc. Those who emphasize the grace message seems more tolerant of people indulging in sin. It's as though God likes sin, well that is the impression am getting.

I like the law preachers because they don't make me comfortable in my own sin. They are very good with showing taugh love and sometimes I do need that . They are also good in showing the strict side of God and also in preaching about the end time messages. I also noticed that some people got saved by their preachings of hell and not by preaching sweet messages.

I also like the grace preachers because they are understanding, tolerant, sweet, never condemning, loving, graceful etc. They show the sweet and loving side of God, which is what I always need. Well there is a lot I can say about the grace preachers.

I am not against both doctrines, I only dislike extremism, so by the grace of God I am striving to have a balanced view of the Bible, also understanding that it is impossible to have a balance view of it since am human and possess a finite mind.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#138,186
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#138,186
DorothyMae said:
Therefore DON’T DO ANY whatever you do is the bottom line of this theology, for Heavens sake.
Click to expand...
The above comment not only reeks of dishonesty, it also reeks of ignorance and denies the context of the thread......you must be a religionist or Cainologist!
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#138,187
May 3, 2017
3,754
4,119
113
63
#138,187
DorothyMae said:
Therefore DON’T DO ANY whatever you do is the bottom line of this theology, for Heavens sake.
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 6:11
AND SUCH WHERE SOME OF YOU...

And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#138,189
#138,189
DorothyMae said:
Therefore DON’T DO ANY whatever you do is the bottom line of this theology, for Heavens sake.
Click to expand...
The bottom line of this theology is works never saved and never will.

Your statement is a completely disingenuous interpretation of the OP I might add.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#138,190
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#138,190
Pulie said:
Thank you

The grace message has really liberated me Then I came across some parts of Bible, where it tells me I have to work out my own salvation (Phil 2:12-18) and that faith without works is dead(Jam 2:14-25), while on the other hand the author of 1John sounds very strict, although not entirely so(1John2:3-6)and Hebrews also tells me that I have to be diligent(Heb6:11) etc.

I also noticed that Jesus rejected false prophets who did not know him and referred to them as evil doers(Math7:15-23).

The churches emphasizing the law doctrine makes me feel like I have to work hard in order to earn God's love, while on the other hand the churches emphasizing the grace doctrine makes me feel like it is okay to indulge in sin. Well am not referring to all churches. That is the weaknesses I have noticed from those who are on the extreme ends of both doctrines.

I also realized that there is a spirit behind every form of extremism, am not referring to demons but rather to the aura that comes from extremism.

People who emphasize the law seem angry,self righteous, not accepting, controlling etc. Those who emphasize the grace message seems more tolerant of people indulging in sin. It's as though God likes sin, well that is the impression am getting.

I like the law preachers because they don't make me comfortable in my own sin. They are very good with showing taugh love and sometimes I do need that . They are also good in showing the strict side of God and also in preaching about the end time messages. I also noticed that some people got saved by their preachings of hell and not by preaching sweet messages.

I also like the grace preachers because they are understanding, tolerant, sweet, never condemning, loving, graceful etc. They show the sweet and loving side of God, which is what I always need. Well there is a lot I can say about the grace preachers.

I am not against both doctrines, I only dislike extremism, so by the grace of God I am striving to have a balanced view of the Bible, also understanding that it is impossible to have a balance view of it since am human and possess a finite mind.
Click to expand...
There is a balance to be struck based upon context......The problem arises when the "Lawers" and LAW preachers attempt to conflate the two covenants.....The only purpose of the LAW was to deem guilt....it was never meant to justify a man before God....Note the following..

a. By the LAW there shall no FLESH be justified in his sight because by the LAW is the knowledge of sin! Why? BECAUSE NO ONE other than Jesus has kept it or can keep it....regardless of all liars that say they do or have.

b. The law deems the whole world guilty and shuts EVERY MOUTH (Romans 3)

c. Abraham concluded that a man is justified before God by FAITH WITHOUT the deeds/works of the LAW

D. The law as a SCHOOLMASTER takes us by the HAND AND POINTS TO CHRIST AS THE CURE. (Moses, the promise land, Joshua, Moses taking the people to the very edge, not being able to deliver due to 1 sin, etc. a big picture of this truth)

e. The law is WEAK through the FLESH....and this misnomer that some keep it or can keep it is a flat lie....what they cannot grasp..break the least of the law ONCE makes one guilty of being a law breaker....to be justified by the law one must keep every jot and tittle 24/7/365 from BIRTH TO DEATH......or be found a law breaker.

The flip side....yes....SOME abuse grace and EVEN PAUL was accused of the same crap we are accused of this very day by the workers for, self saving, self faith sustaining salvation losers.....they like to coin phrases like (greasy grace) and devalue the grace of God and regardless....Where sin abounds, GRACE ABOUNDS THE MORE <-- WRITTEN TO THE SAVED.....another thing.....my bible says clearly that my sin debt (past, present and future) was cancelled in Christ......when he said, "It is finished" <- a legal accounting term....= PAID IN FULL!

NO one has said we are not to live as godly as we can, and yet these salvation losers constantly accuse us of that because we fully embrace eternal security based upon the verbiage of the bible in CONTEXT!
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#138,191
#138,191
Pulie said:
Okay I am saved on the basis of salvation through faith in Christ, however, at the end salvation through Christ will not be enough to get me saved? Is that what your saying?

What is the requirements to finally being saved at the end?

Please refer me to scriptures and that way I will understand your interpretation of the particular texts.
Click to expand...
Salvation is gift received in a moment in time. It is present reality.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end....(meaning result is) everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Paul is saying in those verses “Having being made free from sin (saved), you were sanctified (made holy) and were given an eternal life.”

“but now" is used to tell his readers he is talking about a present reality, not just some future events.
 
P

Pulie

Active member
#138,196
May 26, 2020
216
94
28
#138,196
"
eternally-gratefull said:
What do you not understand?
Click to expand...
"If the Bible says I have been saved yet in the end, I may not be saved".
eternally-gratefull said:
Wow,

no You did not understand me at all.

i am saved, and I will be saved, that is salvation

i have the seal of the spirit as my pledge from God to assure it
Click to expand...
Okay I understand partly "I am saved and I will be saved, this is salvation". "I have the spirit as my pledge from God to assure it".

"I will be saved",? Are you referring to sanctification or the rapture?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#138,198
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#138,198
DorothyMae said:
When one keeps preaching against good works, one ought not be surprised if few value doing them.
Click to expand...
No one is preaching against good works genius!! And if you actually read more than the OP without making bias mouthy comments you would actually grasp the truth of this thread...but hey, carry on.....!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#138,200
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#138,200
EleventhHour said:
Where is the preaching against good works? The OP is clear with regards "good works" as not being part of salvation.
Click to expand...
A dime a dozen......supposedly we live in the most highly educated society that has ever been.....amazing how many cannot read and or can read something not said or even implied in a post....!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.