Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

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G

garee

Banned
#61
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#61
Lucy-Pevensie said:
IS THIS THE OFFICIAL POSITION OF CHRISTIAN CHAT?

That Catholics are NOT Christian?
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Catholiscim like Mormonism or JWs is a dark place. They resist the authority of God's word and do despite to grace making it without effect .

The Bible has no place in their theology. They must seek the approval of men in violation to scripture and abide in their own written law of the fathers making God' book of the law (sola scriptuptura )without effect..

The 15 th. century reformation is a carbon copy of the 1st. century. Just different fathers that they must seek the approval of.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#62
Nov 24, 2012
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#62
garee said:
The 15 th. century reformation is a carbon copy of the 1st. century. Just different fathers that they must seek the approval of.
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Really? Are you sure the Church in Paul’s day had an identity with the State as the Lutherans had with Germany, the Calvinists had with Switzerland and the Anglicans with Britain? (Hint: paedobaptism automatically made you a member of the State Church, whereas Jesus said ‘My Kingdom is not of this world).
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#63
Feb 24, 2009
3,229
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New Zealand
#63
SmokeWalker said:
Oh, not this rubbish again.
Not a catholic, but the ones referred to as re-baptisers in the pre-Reformation world were either:
a)various flavours of donatism, that considered the mainstream church to lack valid Sacraments, due to being lost by former traditores, and the ones tolerating them;
b)various flavours of gnostics, that rejected trinitarian baptism due to their religions being extra-weird mystery cults;

So it wasn't a question of rejecting pedobaptism in favour of credobaptism, but rejecting all baptism performed by mainstream churches entirely.
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Have you read of the churches in the valley of piedemont?

Read of the Paulicians?

Its true that in amongst the ana Baptist groups there were some weird beliefs, but there were also Christian churches that hung on tenaciously to biblical teaching.

Remember also that the record of a lot of these groups was written by their persecutors and enemies. So it will be biased to an extent.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#64
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#64
Catholic is not Christian but antichrist

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains:

(A) "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.

It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

1. Peter never in rome so pope is not peter successor, that is first lie


2. I put (a) oN that sentence that prove catholic is antichrist, try to replace Christ.

Real doctrine: No salvation apart from Christ.

Antichrist doctrine: No salvation apart from RCC
That is antichrist. Antichrist mean replace christ
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#65
#65
Searcher92 said:
False. The priest intercedes as the conduit(because of his position), but he does not forgive one's sins. He prays to God on your behalf.
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I know this is an older thread and I don't know if you're still here. But priests went away with the OT. Our intercessor is Jesus Christ, He is our high priest. He tore the veil, now we can go directly to the throne of God because of Christ. There is no one in between.
 
T

tantalon

Active member
#66
Oct 11, 2019
286
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#66
1 Timothy 2: 5. "for there is one God and one mediator, between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". In other words, we pray to the Father directly, and end our prayer in Jesus' name. We do NOT pray to Mary or any dead saints, they are just people as we are, that teaching is taught by institutions and not of God's word, neither do we "confess our sins' to a priest but to God only, in the New Covenant.
 
U

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
#67
Jul 28, 2017
907
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#67
Jackson123 said:
Peter never in rome so pope is not peter successor, that is first lie
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That's rich, Peter was never in Rome.... That is like saying someone who lives in Albany has never been to New York.

tantalon said:
1 Timothy 2: 5. "for there is one God and one mediator, between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". In other words, we pray to the Father directly, and end our prayer in Jesus' name.
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If you have a mediator then you access the other party thru the mediator, not directly.
​
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.​
Rom 1:7-8​

Hence it is written;

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:​
John 14:6-7​
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#68
Feb 15, 2014
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#68
Searcher92 said:
Why do people attack Catholics as false, when we're the mutant spawn that arose from the original church? How does one reconcile their beliefs knowing that Catholicism came first?
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What you mean as catholism? The time of the pope aerea? The first Christians came out of the judaism. Their was no catholic teaching First. The catholism has some very big differences to the First Christianity, as you can read in acts 2. F.e.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#70
Feb 24, 2009
3,229
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New Zealand
#70
Thou art Peter and on this rock I will build my church..

Jesus was referring to Himself as the builder. Word for Jesus... 'mass' of rock. Word for Peter.. 'little' rock.

Petros vs Petra.

Or the other way of looking at it is Jesus being the builder with Peter being among the disciples He would build His church with.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#71
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#71
wattie said:
Thou art Peter and on this rock I will build my church..

Jesus was referring to Himself as the builder. Word for Jesus... 'mass' of rock. Word for Peter.. 'little' rock.

Petros vs Petra.

Or the other way of looking at it is Jesus being the builder with Peter being among the disciples He would build His church with.
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Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Mat 16:16-18)

Looking at the progression of events, it seems to make more sense to link Peter's confession, "“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” to Jesus' declaration 'upon this rock' I will build my Church'.
The Church is built upon that confession.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#72
#72
325 was the earliest beginnings with Constantine and the Nicene Creed. Over the next 200 years the system was developed. That means that the original church before 325 knew nothing about the type of system that would take over in the future. However there were always those who refused to assemble with the official churches lead by the unregenerate bishops who replaced the true God ordained pastors. The true church had to meet in secret and were slaughtered and imprisoned when found out by the RCC. The problem with reading church history is that the true church that was always spiritual enough to know that the RCC bishops were false, did not write so the only way you can trace the original church is to read about what the RCC called heretics. They were falsely accused by the RCC because they would not join them or comply with their false teachings. God has always had a remnant from Pauls day throughout the dark ages that never joined the RCC.
 
O

ourforgiveness-com

New member
#73
Apr 22, 2020
8
0
1
#73
What saith the Scripture?

Acts 11:26
“And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”
***Antioch was a centralize region for converts, Paul himself spent time there teaching.

Acts 26:28
“Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.”
***Paul almost convinces king Agrippa to convert and be a follower of Christ, hence the name Christian.

1 Peter 4:16
“Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.”
***Mind you, this is the Apostle Peter speaking; not the Pope Peter.
 
Nebuchadnezzer

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
#75
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#75
Searcher92 said:
The heretic belongs with the one who has no evidence for their beliefs.

Does debate scare you so much that you can't see the value in opposing views? Or are you afraid of the truth like a child afraid of its own shadow? Or that you have no facts to back up your position? Your religion came after Catholicism. That is truth.

What actual church was there before the Roman Catholics, besides this mystery "early church" that Protestants can't claim from any Christian denomination.

Here's a fact for you:

"Peter the Apostle, original name Simeon or Simon, (died 64 ce, Rome [Italy] ), disciple of Jesus Christ, recognized in the early Christian church as the leader of the 12 disciples and by the Roman Catholic Church as the first of its unbroken succession of popes. "
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Vatican I Council (In Red)
SESSION 2 : 6 January 1870
Profession of faith
This true catholic faith, outside of which none can be saved,

SESSION 4 : 18 July 1870
Chapter 2. On the permanence of the primacy of blessed Peter in the Roman pontiffs
5. Therefore, ❍ if anyone says that ■ it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that ■ the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema.
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/1869-1869,_Concilium_Vaticanum_I,_Documenta_Omnia,_EN.pdf

I believe the Roman pontiffs are the perpetual successors of the Man of Lawlessness. They are false prophets. They are not by the institution of Christ, they are by the institution of Satan.

What does the Catholic church say of me? I am not saved. Therefore, let me be anathema (let me be hated).

---------------------------

But what does the True Christ say?
Matthew 5:44 "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"
 
Benadam

Benadam

Banned
#76
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#76
blue_ladybug said:
Why would people of any faith need a priest to pray to Jesus on their behalf? We can go to Jesus directly ourselves without a 3rd party intervention..
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If that were true Jesus wouldn't have said this;

John 20

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#79
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#79
wattie said:
Thou art Peter and on this rock I will build my church..

Jesus was referring to Himself as the builder. Word for Jesus... 'mass' of rock. Word for Peter.. 'little' rock.

Petros vs Petra.

Or the other way of looking at it is Jesus being the builder with Peter being among the disciples He would build His church with.
Click to expand...
Yep, catholic is manupulator, petros and Petra is similar, easy target to manipulate

In other word, catholic is a liar
 
Benadam

Benadam

Banned
#80
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#80
Jackson123 said:
Catholic is not Christian but antichrist

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains:

(A) "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.

It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

1. Peter never in rome so pope is not peter successor, that is first lie


2. I put (a) oN that sentence that prove catholic is antichrist, try to replace Christ.

Real doctrine: No salvation apart from Christ.

Antichrist doctrine: No salvation apart from RCC
That is antichrist. Antichrist mean replace christ
Click to expand...
You proclaim what is not the Church without proclaiming what is.

The community that gathered around Jesus was founded on rock. It's doctrine without error, a light shining on a hill, according to Jesus it still is and will be until He returns. So, it's a material reality that can be pointed out. This is what scriptures teach us about the community that gathered around Jesus.

The Truth was heard then without error and Jesus said it is now.
Can you point out that community to me?
Jesus said it's on earth today. The Truth is out there...
 
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