DID GOD FORSAKE HIS SON?

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watchman333

watchman333

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#81
Jan 24, 2020
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#81
massorite said:
Boy did you speak a mouth full. this very subject has always bothered me, not about what the bible say but about what man has come up with. Now days the word is that "God turned His back on His Son" but years ago the word was that "God forsook His Son" because God can't look upon sin. This is something man came up with because of scriptural ignorance and a misunderstanding of what Christ said while on the cross.
First of all this idea that God can't look upon sin is a false man made belief because scripture tells us that God did look upon sin.
Many times when man is not able to make sense of what the Word of God says, man will make something up that at the very least sounds good.
Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
So by these verses we know God did infact look upon the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. Which means that God could look upon His Son while He was on the cross and God never turned His back on or forsook His Son on the Cross
In the days of Christ there were very few bibles/manuscripts and when folks would gather at the the temple or synagogue the custem was to recite the verses out loud to be discussed that day and the manuscript or scroll would be shut.
Watchman333 is correct. Christ was bringing attention to the prophetic psalm 22, reminding folks that the whole event was prophesied long before it happened. But there is one more thing we should consider about what Christ said while He was on the cross.
Christ took on the past, present and future sins of the world and we all know that the more sin we have in our lives the farther away from God we are and feel. It could be that Christ only felt like the Father had forsaken Him because of all of the sin that was heaped upon Him.
If God is willing to turn His back on His son, Who knew no sin then God would be willing to turn His back on us who sin daily.
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Hi Massorite, and thank you for the kind words. I think it would help everyone reading this post to realize our Beloved sacrificed Himself, for us, and our Father and He knew this from the beginning. Everything said and done on the cross was for our benefit. It accomplished Their plan of forgiveness of sin and salvation for Their children.
 
watchman333

watchman333

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#82
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#82
Rondonmon said:
You have missed it a wee bit brother. I as a very young Christian at 25 {30 years ago} almost slipped up with a young lady before I got married to my current wife. And I felt my heart beating a 1000 times a minute it seemed, the Holy Spirit was very grieved, and I myself stopped what I was about to do. God can not ABIDE SIN.

So naturally, God had to LEAVE Jesus on the cross alone when all of our sins were upon him. God can not abide sin, His Glory would destroy the Sin in His Holy presence. This is why I say, God doesn't really condemn men to hell {Separation from God} MEN condemn themselves to hell by refusing the free gift of Salvation. In other words, if a Warden/Gov. gave a Pardon to a death row inmate and all he had to do was claim it by signing a document, and he refused to accept it, that man would have condemned himself to death. We as human sinners can not come into the presence of God with Sin, God can not abide sin.

Thus, on the cross, with all our sins upon him as our Sacrifice, God had to leave Jesus' presence, and of course Jesus then asks, My God, My God, why have you forsaken {LEFT} me?

It has a real meaning brother, it's not just said to fulfill Psalms 22.
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Sorry Rondonmon, but I have to disagree. Our Heavenly Father is not nearly as fragile as you would make Him out to be. After all, it was His plan of salvation for His children, executed perfectly by His Son.
 
R

Rondonmon

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#83
May 13, 2016
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#83
watchman333 said:
Sorry Rondonmon, but I have to disagree. Our Heavenly Father is not nearly as fragile as you would make Him out to be. After all, it was His plan of salvation for His children, executed perfectly by His Son.
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There is NOTHING to disagree about unless you want to deny the scriptures. The bible clearly says what Jesus said, and the FACTS are that God can't abide sin. Read John ch. 20, why did Jesus tell Mary TOUCH ME NOT for I have not yet ascended to the Father ? Because Jesus had not yet taken THE SACRIFICE to the Father, and Mary merely touching him with her SIN FLESH would have defiled the Sacrifice. God can not abide sin, that is why Moses could not look upon God. God had to leave Jesus when all the sin of the whole world was upon him. It's not a debate in reality. I have been preaching for 35 years, but I understood this my first time ever reading the bible, this is a very elementary issue.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#84
Jul 18, 2017
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#84
Rondonmon said:
this is a very elementary issue.
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Exactly. But what we see today is a major movement in Christendom to undermine the finished work of Christ, by questioning things which are beyond being questionable.
 
watchman333

watchman333

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Jan 24, 2020
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#85
Rondonmon said:
There is NOTHING to disagree about unless you want to deny the scriptures. The bible clearly says what Jesus said, and the FACTS are that God can't abide sin. Read John ch. 20, why did Jesus tell Mary TOUCH ME NOT for I have not yet ascended to the Father ? Because Jesus had not yet taken THE SACRIFICE to the Father, and Mary merely touching him with her SIN FLESH would have defiled the Sacrifice. God can not abide sin, that is why Moses could not look upon God. God had to leave Jesus when all the sin of the whole world was upon him. It's not a debate in reality. I have been preaching for 35 years, but I understood this my first time ever reading the bible, this is a very elementary issue.
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Hi Ron. We can agree to disagree. My belief is that everything done and said on the cross was for the benefit of all future generations, and there were no surprises to our Lord, or to our Father. Thank you for your service to the Lord, and be blessed on this most holy day.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#86
Jan 10, 2019
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#86
Rondonmon said:
Read John ch. 20, why did Jesus tell Mary TOUCH ME NOT for I have not yet ascended to the Father ? Because Jesus had not yet taken THE SACRIFICE to the Father, and Mary merely touching him with her SIN FLESH would have defiled the Sacrifice. God can not abide sin, that is why Moses could not look upon God. God had to leave Jesus when all the sin of the whole world was upon him. It's not a debate in reality. I have been preaching for 35 years, but I understood this my first time ever reading the bible, this is a very elementary issue.
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Jesus wasn't telling Mary that she couldn't "touch" him. He was telling her not to cling on to him, grab him, in the sense, or with the intention, of not letting him go.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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#87
We need to get away from the idea that God would ever forsake the Word.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Journeyman said:
We need to get away from the idea that God would ever forsake the Word.
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I don't know what you mean by that cryptic statement, unless you are speaking of Jesus as the "Word" (rather than the Lamb of God). But here is something for all you naysayers:

The day Jesus was abandoned by God

Exclusive: Greg Laurie explains why the Father's ear was closed to Christ for a time
By Greg Laurie
Published April 10, 2020 at 7:13pm

Has it ever seemed as though God has abandoned you? Maybe you're feeling weighed down by the very real threat of COVID-19 and the pressures along with it. Maybe you feel like God has given up on you or isn't hearing your prayers.If so, then you have a vague idea of how Jesus felt on the most difficult day of his life on earth.

That day, he hung on a Roman cross and cried out, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" (Matthew 27:46 NKJV). These are also the opening words of Psalm 22, one of the most unique psalms in the Bible. We would call this a Messianic prophecy, which simply means it's one of those remarkable passages in the Old Testament that points to the Messiah.

And not only is this a Messianic prophecy, but it's also a graphic description of the events that took place on the day of the Crucifixion. In fact, in many ways it's more detailed and specific than the accounts provided in the actual Gospels.

What makes this psalm so amazing is that it was written 1,000 years before the crucifixion of Jesus took place. In fact, the Jews didn't practice crucifixion, and the Romans didn't develop it. It was a form of death initially devised by the Medes, Persians and Assyrians. When it spread throughout the East, the Romans borrowed it from the Phoenicians. So crucifixion wasn't even practiced when the psalmist David originally spoke of it in Psalm 22. That's why it's all the more remarkable. Yet the passage reads like a vivid eyewitness account of the Crucifixion.

I don't believe that when David wrote down these words, he was describing a situation he was going through. There was nothing in David's life that would have even come close to approaching what he described here. I think that when David penned Psalm 22, God spoke to him in a way that enabled him to describe the suffering of the Messiah. I don't even know that David fully grasped everything he was writing down. Statements such as, "They pierced My hands and My feet" (verse 16 NKJV); "My strength is dried up like a potsherd" (verse 15) and "for My clothing they cast lots" (verse 18) are all vivid descriptions of what happened when Jesus was crucified.

Now, it is impossible for us as humans to completely fathom what actually took place. But I think it's important to try and grasp what was happening here, because it's of the greatest significance and speaks of God's love for us. When Jesus cried out, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" these weren't delusional words coming from someone in pain. It wasn't that the faith of Jesus was failing. Rather, Jesus was in full control of his faculties. He wasn't losing his mind. Something of profound significance was taking place, and he merely stated the truth of the situation.

We know the sin of the world was put upon Jesus at one point, because speaking of this moment the Scriptures said of Jesus, "For He shall bear their iniquities" (Isaiah 53:11 NKJV). The Bible also tells us, "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21 NKJV). The Bible isn't saying that Jesus sinned, because he never did. Rather, Jesus had to take our sins upon himself. We assume this probably was during the three hours of darkness while Jesus hung on the cross, culminating in his statement, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

Jesus was forsaken of God for a time so that we might be forgiven. The ear of God was closed to him for a time so that it might be open to us forever. Jesus was there doing what had to be done. And only he could do it.

Understand, to be forsaken of God was much more of a source of anguish to Jesus than to anyone else. He was absolutely holy. Never during one moment of his earthly life did he have one thought out of harmony with God the Father. Never did he even come close to sinning. He was in intimate closeness with God.

This was something that had to happen in the life of the Son of God so that we could come back into a relationship with the Father – a relationship that was broken in the Garden of Eden. Yet this isn't the way that God normally deals with his own when they face life's hardest moments. If you're a child of God, you have not been – and you never will be – forsaken by God.

When you look at stories in the Bible of those who suffered, you'll find that God always was with them in a special way. For instance, when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were thrown into a fiery furnace for their bold profession of faith, the king looked in and said, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God" (Daniel 3:25 NKJV). There was Jesus, in the flames with them.

When we read the story of young Stephen, who was being put to death because of his bold proclamation of the gospel, we read that he had a vision of heaven. He said, "Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!" (Acts 7:56 NKJV).

When the apostle Paul was speaking of his suffering and difficulties because of what he described as "a thorn in the flesh," the Lord said to him, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness" (2 Corinthians 12:9 NLT). God met his people in times of need with special provision and comfort. And he does the same for us.

So often it's during difficult times that we come into a greater appreciation of God's grace and his power. That is when we really see it shine. God does not forsake his people. Jesus himself said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you" (Hebrews 13:5 NKJV).

If you are a child of God, you have never been – nor ever will be – forsaken by God. Jesus made sure of this on the cross.

https://www.wnd.com/2020/04/day-jesus-abandoned-god/
 
R

Rondonmon

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#89
May 13, 2016
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#89
Journeyman said:
Jesus wasn't telling Mary that she couldn't "touch" him. He was telling her not to cling on to him, grab him, in the sense, or with the intention, of not letting him go.
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Mmmmm, no, it was because she would have defiled the Sacrifice.

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
 
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