Not By Works

Paul --

sinless?

blameless ≠ without sin.. ?

Again, you're interpreting the whole thing through your reading of Romans. Romans is not a theological treatise and it wasn't until it began being treated as such that this false division between faith/works began. It's why Luther wanted to throw out James, Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation. Grace means getting more than you deserve, but mercy is something that you can deserve based on not having done anything that requires retribution. Justice would not be just if a single penalty was given to all, but that was what sin created. It destroys without regard to morality, and the world shows it. But God is just, and the righteous find Him. The twisted gospel you preach comes from a twisted view of humanity and creates a twisted picture of justice.

First off, OSAS doesn't "teach" anything. We accept the Truth given to us about salvation.

Secondly, that "relationship" is established once and for all when we accept Christ and become saved, through the "gift" provided by God through His Son Jesus Christ. That is what a relationship is.

Thirdly, There is a difference between "relationship" and "fellowship." Fellowship can be broken and mended. My children cannot never end their relationship with me. Kids and mother forever. Our fellowship with one another can be broken.

Final thought, for you and those who preach works or hanging on to salvation: I would be very careful deciding who will be thrown into that lake of fire.

“Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

Oh there has been, but it's not the doctine that Luther preached. If one condemns Christ to justify themselves, they have only proven that they deserve His wrath.

@blue_ladybug

Where are you .... can you come out to play??

There we go ... very insightful

Houston, we have a problem.

I'm currently playing Christmas mahjong.. lol

I am quite familiar how Catholics view things ... and I see the typical works/grace mix in your ideas.

But I wonder how you would deal with these verses ... and imputed is not used surely you can see that is the righteousness of Christ .. not our righteousness.

Can you please explain what these verses mean according to your dogma?

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

What would you call "he took the penalty I deserved"? Penal substitution, as presented by protestants, calls to do exactly that. To glory in His sufferings rather than recognizing the injustice of it. The great exchange does exactly that, by placing the guilt of your sins onto Him so that you can be "deemed righteous". The point of the cross is to bring us to the point where we recognize that our answer to God's question to Job is yes and to be ashamed of it. Those who recognize this are set free because God shows that He truly is just.

Fun game... I used to play that .. I just wanted to see that double face palm and that kitten it is so cute!!

Ain't a catholic. I'm a former protestant, now simply a disciple.

Interesting... can you then still answer my question?

Please and thank you.

Samson carrying away the gates of Gaza on his shoulders
blood sprinkled on the mercy seat
the ashes of the red heifer
the ark of Noah being covered inside and out with 'pitch' ((= 'atonement' ... look it up))
God providing a Lamb for Isaac's place
the LORD God making coverings for Adam & his wife

but you call it blasphemy, i take it?
and you say, this is something only a few hundred years old?

The first has to do with what the second "sin" is, which is a sin offering. To answer that question we have to go to Leviticus and examine its theology. The principle issue there is not guilt, but uncleanness/impurity. They had a unclean-common-clean theology and the blood was used to cleanse the implements of the temple of the stain that sin had left behind. So Christ becoming our sin offering means He cleanses us from the stain that our sin entailed

The second is about recognizing that righteousness comes not according to the law, but faith in Christ.

So you agree that righteousness comes by faith in Christ... is this a process then since you do not believe it is imputed at the moment of faith?