Do you still sin?

So, we're looking at God is Light vs. spiritual darkness - we cannot be both, but possibly as Children of God living in God's Light and walking in God's Light IF we sin (stumble/backslide/fall down, etc.) it is NOT unto Death.

Whereas, in those WITHOUT God in spiritual darkness are sinning a sin that IS unto Death.

Hold on, I'm researching!

See, this is where I part ways...... I absolutely believe that the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus Christ took away ALL my sin and my salvation CANNOT be lost, I am FOREVER His and will NEVER be plucked out of His Hand.

We obviously have to learn to WALK - everyone knows when a child is learning to walk they FALL DOWN a lot, but they get back up and eventually they WALK. I just CANNOT see "Falling Down" as sinning.

I do fall into sin once in a while. I asked fr forgiveness and Iam sure that God has forgiven me

Lightskin - you're not even spelling my name correct....lol!

God bless you! You are a joy, much love to you!

This false teaching is likely a twist of Wesley's perfectionism. @Lafftur are you a methodist or charismatic/pentecostal?

Are there different Greek/Hebrew words used to describe all these different types of sinners in the Bible?

If so, I'd really like to understand them.

@John146 - what do you mean by "standing vs state"? Sounds interesting.....

I disagree.

When I "fall down" because I'm learning how to walk....... God is not going to say "Uh-oh! Can't help you, we're separated now.... you'll have to get back up ON YOUR OWN. I can ONLY be in fellowship with you while you are "walking correctly."

We "stumble or fall down" when we're not FILLED with the Holy Spirit. We're suppose to stir up the Gift of the Holy Spirit within us and be filled with the Holy Spirit so we can walk by the Spirit and NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Ephesians 5:8-20 King James Version (KJV)
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Okay, I'm now on post #129..... but, I gotta go. I promise to return!!

I am sooo enjoying all of your posts! Such great input!! It feels like were all on a archaeology dig and about to uncover some really good deep truth!!!

I really got to go look up Greek/Hebrew!!!

God is so wonderful!!! He wants us to walk in Truth and love one another!!

Much love to all of you!

Since you avoided answering my last post to you I will ask my question again? Define "stumbling" or "falling down?" Please give me an example of what you mean? And your right, the Blood of Jesus Christ on that cross took away ALL our sins, past, present and future, this is a given. And since this is true why does John say at 1 John 1:9-10 say, "If we confes our sins, (Why does John tell us to confess our sins is as believers we don't sin according to you?)

Remember John is writing to believers otherwise why does John say at 1 John 2:1, "My little children?" And getting back to vs10 of chapter 1, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." The "BIG" problem your having is you do not know how to reconcile what I just said with 1 John 3:8-10. In short, you have tunnel vision and your not willing to face the Biblical fact that as believers we still commit sin. Reconcile, reconcile, reconcile Lafftur.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

It seems to me, the key to this mystery is how we view sin/what we think sin is vs how the Bible presents it. We think of it as an abstraction, a breaking of a law and the culpability that comes with it. So Jesus must have covered our guilt, right? But look to Leviticus and the idea of guilt/punishment is absent from the sacrifices(other than one, where it is addressed by paying back what was taken and then some). Instead what they are doing is cleansing a stain, removing the defect. I, as a man, still violate God's law and thus commit sins. Yet in Jesus I have cleansing of that sin, and through my confession and contrition I receive mercy for the guilt. My sins are no longer a death sentence, but I still must seek to make restitution where it is due and trust in God's grace for the guilt.

That's interesting @Lafftur, it may be something to look into.

Hello again!

If you are looking for a different word to describe one kind of sin from another, you are not going to find it. The way to understand what John is speaking about is through what John is describing, i.e. through the context:

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"Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. 8But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believersb does not belong to God."
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In the context above, John is speaking about people who "keep on sinning," i.e. deliberately, willfully. These are those who have gone back into the flesh. This idea is supported in v.9 when John says that "those born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning. Furthermore, the context is saying that those who truly belong to God will by their own spirit, will not be able to willfully continue in sin and that because God's seed remains in that person. I can personally atest to this, because when I received Christ, for many years I was wrestling to overcome sexual sin. Even though I was fulfilling the desires of my flesh, my spirit was grieving. I could not continue in that way of life because the seed of God remained in me. Then you John saying the following:

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If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. 9But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.
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In the scripture above, John is speaking about those who sin who are already in Christ. His letter is not to unbelievers or new Christians. To paraphrase: "If we as believers in Christ claim that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. However, when we sin as believers, if we confess our sins the Lord is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness."

The above is not speaking about willful and deliberate sin, but sins that we commit as believers in our walk with Christ. There is a difference between those who are willfully and deliberately continue in sin vs. those who are walking in Christ who sin because of their weaknesses.

In conclusion, for the believer to say "I have no sin" is false. We are sinners who are covered by the blood of Christ. We are not sinning deliberately, but because the sinful nature still abides in us. The true believer is trying to live a life without sin, but because of the sinful nature we still sin. The other group has wandered away from the truth and is living according to the sinful nature, i.e. not holding back his sinful desires, but satisfying them. But to say that we as believers have no sin is a false statement.

Consider what the following scripture which is written to believers:

"And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

In the scripture above, how can we confess our sins to each other if we have no sin to confess? And how can we be forgiven if we have no sin to be forgiven for?

Yes, the blood of Christ does cover our sins, but that does not mean that we as believers do not commit sin. It means that through faith, your sins are covered as long as you continue in faith. If one stops having faith and goes back into willfully living according to the sinful nature, then they have wander from the truth. Faith is what keeps us connected to God's grace.

As believers, we are being transformed into the image of Christ, which is a life-long process. During this process we commit sin, but our sins are covered by the blood of Christ, if we continue in faith.

"But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence— if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant."

"We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first."

Hello again, Lafftur!

The following is from "Gotquestions" which conveys what I have been trying to get you to understand. I hope this will shed some light on the subject as to whether those in Christ still commit sin. Please read all of it, including the last paragraph.

Question: "Do Christians sin?"

Answer: Before exploring whether or not Christians sin, let’s define a couple of terms. Regardless of how tattered the word Christian has become throughout history, the biblical definition of a “Christian” is one who is a Christ-follower, a disciple of Jesus (Acts 11:26). A Christian is NOT someone who has ascribed to a particular set of religious beliefs or practices, joined a church, prayed a prayer, or participated in certain sacraments or rituals. A Christian is a person who has responded to the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44) by putting his or her whole faith in the finished work of Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8–9; John 3:15–18). Christians are those who have repented of their sin and have made Jesus Lord of their lives (Romans 10:9–10; Acts 2:38). They are born again by the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:6–7).

“Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10).

When we come to Christ by faith and trust Him to forgive and cleanse us of all our sin, we are in that moment born again (John 3:3). That new birth of the spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). God gives the repentant sinner a new heart that is now turned toward obeying and pleasing Him rather than self (2 Corinthians 5:9; Romans 8:5–6). Whereas we were formerly slaves to sin, we are now “slaves to righteousness” (Romans 6:16). Sin’s control has been broken by the power of Jesus (Romans 6:6; Titus 2:14).

However, we still live in the flesh, and the flesh is prone to want what it wants. In Romans 7:21–23, Paul admits the battle between flesh and spirit in his own life: “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.” Each battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16–17).

The book of 1 John was written to Christians. The apostle says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). It is clear from this passage that even those who have been born again and redeemed by the blood of Jesus will still sin. Through thought, attitude, or action, we will “grieve” (Ephesians 4:30) and “quench” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) the Holy Spirit at times. But this passage also reassures us that God offers continual, ongoing grace whenever we agree with Him about our sin and ask for His cleansing.

However, other passages clarify the boundaries of this ocean of grace. First John 3:6 says, “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.” Verse 9 says that those who have been “born of God” will not continue to live sinfully. The implication is that this is not a matter of trying harder. Rather, it is the equivalent of saying, “A fish cannot remain on land for long because its nature is to seek water.” A fish could flop onto the shore and survive for a short time. But it was not made for land and cannot continue there. When we are born again, our natures change, and we cannot continue in sin. Christ not only erases our past sin; He also transforms our hearts so that we no longer desire it (Colossians 2:13–14).

Paul asked, “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1–2). Although Christians will still sin after being saved, the heart change that the Holy Spirit brings will result in a new attitude toward sin. Sin cannot continue being a lifestyle choice if we have surrendered our lives to Jesus. That’s what it means to say that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9; Colossians 2:6). We have a new boss. We cannot be followers of Christ and followers of sin at the same time. They are going in opposite directions (Luke 9:23; 14:33). Romans 12:2 instructs, “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Renewal can take some time, but it is a process that produces a change of behavior.

When a true child of God goes astray, our Father administers discipline to bring him back into obedience. Hebrews 12:7–8 says, “It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.” If a professing Christian can choose a lifestyle of sin without experiencing enough discipline to bring him to repentance, then according to this Scripture, it is highly unlikely that that person is a child of God.

Do Christians sin? Yes. Do they willfully continue in sin? No. Scripture indicates that, while we will always “fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we have the hope that the power of God is at work in us to “make us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NLT).