Does man have a libertarian free will?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Does man have a libertarian free will?

  • Yes, man has a libertarian free will

    Votes: 12 41.4%
  • No, man does not have a libertarian free will

    Votes: 16 55.2%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
Even God does not have free will. He is subject to his eternal decree which is perfect. Being perfect any change would be to imperfection.
Actually, God changes His mind all throughout Scripture.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
Yes.

This is exactly the way it works for all to be truly saved. You are not kicking against me, you are kicking against the Holy inspired Word of God. All I posted was Scripture. Scripture that states that we must turn our hearts, minds, and eyes towards Jesus in order to be saved. Please do not insinuate that I do not believe I need a Saviour. That is not what Ezekiel 18 is saying.

18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye.
Exactly! In Calvin’s fatalist system, there is no accountability.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Is that how it worked for you?

Did you cast away all your transgressions and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit?


Most people who call themselves Christian need a Saviour, which is why they call themselves Christian.

why use the same old backwards logic that never worked before and does not work now?

our sins are forgiven when we accept Christ

no one actually gets a 'new' spirit

they get a renewed spirit and the Holy Spirit

you folks attempt to say we did everything ourselves because you do not understand how it really works
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Is that how it worked for you?

Did you cast away all your transgressions and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit?


Most people who call themselves Christian need a Saviour, which is why they call themselves Christian.

most?

I thought we all needed Christ
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
No you are not grasping the situation clearly. God is not subject to His decree. God is demonstrating His character. His character dictates His decrees. Mans character is flawed from the fall and tends to make wrong choices. God has amended His decrees to accommodate mans flawed character. It is part of Gods mecry.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
God's decree is his nature. You can't have faith if he can change it.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
@7seasrekeyed And again, more deflection. All this aggressive rhetoric to avoid one simple question.

One more time, what biblical basis is your hatred of the doctrine built upon?

Let me remind you, claiming you do not hate the doctrine is out of alignment with your above statements, that those who subscribe to it are guilty of idolatry and deceived by doctrines of demons. 👇

Calvinists portray a false portrait of God in their own image

I will never understand this view because it is demonic and needs no explanation

God is not double minded and does not create sin nor those who sin with no hope of salvation
They’re your statements, explain them. Surely one who so adamantly opposes such a doctrine could logically, biblically explain and would jump at the chance to do so. Less they have no clue what drives the hatred, perhaps that’s your problem 🤷‍♂️
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
According to his unchangeable decree which cannot be changed to imperfection.
God changed His mind concerning Nineveh and decided not to overthrow them in forty days as He said He was going to do. There are many more examples of God repenting.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
God changed His mind concerning Nineveh and decided not to overthrow them in forty days as He said He was going to do. There are many more examples of God repenting.
He does this every time someone repents. But it was his unchangeable eternal decree to do so.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
He does this every time someone repents. But it was his unchangeable eternal decree to do so.
Are you calling God a liar? God plainly stated that Nineveh would be overthrown in forty days, yet He did not overthrow them. Nineveh believed God’s word of destruction, cried out to God and repented. In turn, God repented. Simple.

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
Are you calling God a liar? God plainly stated that Nineveh would be overthrown in forty days, yet He did not overthrow them. Nineveh believed God’s word of destruction, cried out to God and repented. In turn, God repented. Simple.

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
It was a conditional threat. Just like all OT threats.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
According to his unchangeable decree which cannot be changed to imperfection.
Please prove your claim. You refer to his "unchangeable decree". Post what is exactly, and in context of there scripture in whole wherein it is contained, the exact passage of Gods word that denotes an unchangeable decree of God. Thank you. I look forward to your post.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
God's decree is his nature. You can't have faith if he can change it.
Please provide the precise scripture, in context of the passage wherein it is contained, wherein that is stated precisely, in Gods word. Thank you. I look forward to your post.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
Please prove your claim. You refer to his "unchangeable decree". Post what is exactly, and in context of there scripture in whole wherein it is contained, the exact passage of Gods word that denotes an unchangeable decree of God. Thank you. I look forward to your post.
“God is not a man, that he should lie; Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?” Numbers 23:19 (KJV 1900)

“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.” James 1:17 (KJV 1900)

“It is of the LORD’s mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.” Lamentations 3:22 (KJV 1900)

“But thou art the same, And thy years shall have no end.” Psalm 102:27 (KJV 1900)

“I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: For I am God, and not man; The Holy One in the midst of thee: And I will not enter into the city.” Hosea 11:9 (KJV 1900)

“And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.” 1 Samuel 15:29 (KJV 1900)

“For I am the LORD, I change not; Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.” Malachi 3:6 (KJV 1900)

Etc., etc.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
It was a conditional threat. Just like all OT threats.
Hmmmm, no condition. Are you adding to the word of God?

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
Please provide the precise scripture, in context of the passage wherein it is contained, wherein that is stated precisely, in Gods word. Thank you. I look forward to your post.
Can God sin?
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
Hmmmm, no condition. Are you adding to the word of God?

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
It was the reason they repented. Are you saying God LIED?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
It was the reason they repented. Are you saying God LIED?
I’m simply saying God changed His mind based upon Nineveh’s response to His word. You are the one who seems to be claiming God lied. Did God lie to bring repentance?

God has all authority to change His mind.