Must You Know Torah to Know God?

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#1
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#1
God the Father gives us salvation through what Christ did for us. Because God granted such power to His Son and God grants us salvation when we have faith in Jesus, we tend to know Jesus well but not the Father.

Much of what we learn of the Father is told through the lives of people who lived thousands of years ago in a world very different from ours. If we tried to visit with them it would be difficult. Can you imagine trying to share with someone who was sure the world was square, who thought salvation needed animal sacrifice, who used salt to bind a contract? We would seem very incapable to them, too. We don’t have the skills they used every day.

But when we don’t know the principles and character of our God that includes the Father, we really only know part of the elements of our God. We must know the character of the person we are relating to, even humans we relate to, to understand them. And most of us know God of the NT, but not the God of the OT.
 
A

Anna7777

New member
#2
Mar 15, 2020
2
0
1
#2
Blik said:
God the Father gives us salvation through what Christ did for us. Because God granted such power to His Son and God grants us salvation when we have faith in Jesus, we tend to know Jesus well but not the Father.

Much of what we learn of the Father is told through the lives of people who lived thousands of years ago in a world very different from ours. If we tried to visit with them it would be difficult. Can you imagine trying to share with someone who was sure the world was square, who thought salvation needed animal sacrifice, who used salt to bind a contract? We would seem very incapable to them, too. We don’t have the skills they used every day.

But when we don’t know the principles and character of our God that includes the Father, we really only know part of the elements of our God. We must know the character of the person we are relating to, even humans we relate to, to understand them. And most of us know God of the NT, but not the God of the OT.
Click to expand...
 
A

Anna7777

New member
#3
Mar 15, 2020
2
0
1
#3
I am new to Christian chat..still trying to figure out how it works
 
J

jacob_g

Active member
#5
Sep 1, 2019
346
160
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#5
Why is Jesus the Messiah? Why did Jesus die on the cross? Why was He not hung or beheaded? What did the blood and cross fulfill? Why did He heal people of leprosy? Why did He quote Isaiah? Why was He born of Mary and not someone from another Tribe? Why did He not defend Himself when He was on trial? Why did He raise the dead? The Paul raised the dead..... what was the difference? Why did He die at Passover? What is the Messiah supposed to do?..... what does all of this mean and a million more questions? .... What other Jew brought the world to God? Only if you know Torah you know why Jesus is Messiah....
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#6
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#6
Blik said:
God the Father gives us salvation through what Christ did for us. Because God granted such power to His Son and God grants us salvation when we have faith in Jesus, we tend to know Jesus well but not the Father.

Much of what we learn of the Father is told through the lives of people who lived thousands of years ago in a world very different from ours. If we tried to visit with them it would be difficult. Can you imagine trying to share with someone who was sure the world was square, who thought salvation needed animal sacrifice, who used salt to bind a contract? We would seem very incapable to them, too. We don’t have the skills they used every day.

But when we don’t know the principles and character of our God that includes the Father, we really only know part of the elements of our God. We must know the character of the person we are relating to, even humans we relate to, to understand them. And most of us know God of the NT, but not the God of the OT.
Click to expand...
Philip said to Jesus, "Show us the Father." Jesus' response to him was, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father."

The character of the Father is demonstrated accurately and adequately in Jesus. By asserting that we can only know the Father through the Torah, you are effectively denying the truthfulness of Jesus' statement.

The character of the Father is known perfectly through Jesus, not through the Torah. The Jews had the Torah, and rejected Jesus. The Jews today have the Torah, and reject Jesus. Knowing the Torah broadens and deepens our understanding of God's patience with sinful and rebellious humans, and of His wisdom and the certainty of His plans. It does not present the character of God differently than the NT does in Jesus.
 
M

MattforJesus

Banned
#7
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#7
Blik said:
God the Father gives us salvation through what Christ did for us. Because God granted such power to His Son and God grants us salvation when we have faith in Jesus, we tend to know Jesus well but not the Father.

Much of what we learn of the Father is told through the lives of people who lived thousands of years ago in a world very different from ours. If we tried to visit with them it would be difficult. Can you imagine trying to share with someone who was sure the world was square, who thought salvation needed animal sacrifice, who used salt to bind a contract? We would seem very incapable to them, too. We don’t have the skills they used every day.

But when we don’t know the principles and character of our God that includes the Father, we really only know part of the elements of our God. We must know the character of the person we are relating to, even humans we relate to, to understand them. And most of us know God of the NT, but not the God of the OT.
Click to expand...
We are saved spiritually by Jesus Christ, New Testament, and the Old Testament is the word of God, and testifies of the Savior to come, and prophesy of the end times, and teaches us to abstain from sins, and goodness, and holiness.

The Old Testament testifies of the New Testament.

Without the Old Testament would people believe the New Testament.

We would not have to know the Torah to be saved, but we cannot say the Old Testament is not important, but the Torah, first 5 books of the Bible, sets up the foundation for the New Testament and testifies a God created everything, and to follow Him, and the nation of Israel.

If a person said the Old Testament is obsolete and we do not have to know it would someone think it is alright to throw it away.

I do not think it would be alright to throw it away.

If we did not have the Old Testament would we believe the New Testament, for would a person believe Jesus is the Savior, and the New Testament if there was not a witness to it, the Old Testament.

Some would but more people believe because of the Old Testament being around.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#8
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#8
MattforJesus said:
We are saved spiritually by Jesus Christ, New Testament, and the Old Testament is the word of God, and testifies of the Savior to come, and prophesy of the end times, and teaches us to abstain from sins, and goodness, and holiness.
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May I suggest you work on your sentence structure, lest your posts be found to contradict Scripture. :)
 
StreetPreacher

StreetPreacher

Member
#9
Oct 12, 2019
50
41
18
#9
TITUS 2:11-14

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
 
J

jacob_g

Active member
#10
Sep 1, 2019
346
160
43
#10
Dino246 said:
Philip said to Jesus, "Show us the Father." Jesus' response to him was, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father."

The character of the Father is demonstrated accurately and adequately in Jesus. By asserting that we can only know the Father through the Torah, you are effectively denying the truthfulness of Jesus' statement.

The character of the Father is known perfectly through Jesus, not through the Torah. The Jews had the Torah, and rejected Jesus. The Jews today have the Torah, and reject Jesus. Knowing the Torah broadens and deepens our understanding of God's patience with sinful and rebellious humans, and of His wisdom and the certainty of His plans. It does not present the character of God differently than the NT does in Jesus.
Click to expand...
How do you bring a Jew to Messiah than, unless you don't?.... (religious Jew and I say you probably have not....)

I respect your post until now!!!
 
J

jacob_g

Active member
#11
Sep 1, 2019
346
160
43
#11
How do you know Jesus is the Messiah if you do not what makes Him Messiah?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#12
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
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#12
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Because I believe our Father through His prophets, I am confident in prayeg to my Eternal Father in the name Yeshua, knowing They, withthe Holy Spirit, are the Same, One.

When I feel I have transgressed I ask the Eternal Father for His Pardon, and each time I say Eternal Father I am painfully aware that He and Yeshua are one, and dI repent because of His firsthand knowledge of what Yeshua, He Himself, has doen for me, and for all.

Of caourse Jesus, Yeshua is the Messiah. Anyone who reads and believes the Prophets knows this. Any who read and do notunderstand will not know it until Yeshua lets sthem know.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#13
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#13
jacob_g said:
How do you bring a Jew to Messiah than, unless you don't?.... (religious Jew and I say you probably have not....)

I respect your post until now!!!
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The thread title question is, "Must you know Torah to know God?" The answer is No. I said nothing about not using the Torah, or rejecting it, or anything of the sort.
 
StreetPreacher

StreetPreacher

Member
#14
Oct 12, 2019
50
41
18
#14
jacob_g said:
How do you know Jesus is the Messiah if you do not what makes Him Messiah?
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There isn't a quick and easy answer to this question but I'd say we know Jesus is Messiah through the study of prophecy and the quickening of The Holy Spirit
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#15
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#15
Anna7777 said:
I am new to Christian chat..still trying to figure out how it works
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Well Anna7777, the Christian faith is very simple. The law (Torah) was given to show us that we have all sinned against God. Jesus came to show us that God will forgive us if we ask him and helps us to live in a way that is good for everyone.
 
StreetPreacher

StreetPreacher

Member
#16
Oct 12, 2019
50
41
18
#16
Journeyman said:
Well Anna7777, the Christian faith is very simple. The law (Torah) was given to show us that we have all sinned against God. Jesus came to show us that God will forgive us if we ask him and helps us to live in a way that is good for everyone.
Click to expand...

I would add that the ONLY life pleasing to God is a life lived in The Holy Spirit because we can't live a righteous life without it.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#17
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#17
StreetPreacher said:
I would add that the ONLY life pleasing to God is a life lived in The Holy Spirit because we can't live a righteous life without it.
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I agree StreetPreacher,

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up residence with him. Jn.14:23

That is how we are born again.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#18
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#18
Anna7777 said:
I am new to Christian chat..still trying to figure out how it works
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Don't let anyone make you think it is complicated. The Bible says;

John 14
14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#19
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#19
StreetPreacher said:
There isn't a quick and easy answer to this question but I'd say we know Jesus is Messiah through the study of prophecy and the quickening of The Holy Spirit
Click to expand...
Did not Abraham say to Isaac that Elohanue would provide Himself a Lamb for the offering?
Is not the story of the cross foretold in the Psalms?
Is not Yeshua foretold to do Yahweh's will in this age in kZechariah e? He is also called by name, Joshua, the High Priest. Jushua is Yehoshua the older version of Yeshua.
Are we not asked in Proverbs if we know the Fassther and are we not asked His Son's name?

The foretelling of Jesus is throughout the Tanakh, from which we all have received our first teaching after the ascent of Jesus...….. If you do not believe the Writings of the Tanakh, there is no use speaking to you of it. Yes, Jesus Christ is Lord,...
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#20
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#20
Must You Know Torah to Know God?
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Why do you think God gave us the Gospel of John?

It is sufficient to know God and Christ.

If someone had nothing other than this Gospel it would be enough.
 
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