Melchizedek

Will they see the Son of man ? or a flash lighting from east to west to represent Him who as the Son of man will not return in flesh and blood.

It would appear the one promised demonstration is the last anyone could see of Him. We walk by faith.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corinthians 5:16

When viewing that portion of scripture it would seem to reflect that Jesus as the Son of man and Christ as the Son of God went separate ways after the death on the cross.

That's because you don't understand the grammar. The apostles knew Jesus in person (i.e. "after the flesh"), and at the time, their understanding was limited to what they perceived with their senses. This is why they continually asked themselves, "Who is this?"

After Jesus' resurrection, they came to understand that Jesus is God, not merely a human being with great powers. Similarly, they understood that as Christians, they themselves were more than flesh and blood, but were indwelt with the Holy Spirit and empowered to do the works that Jesus did.

Your view, that the Son of Man and the Son of God are two different entities, is unbiblical and heretical. You'd do well to abandon your misunderstanding and humbly search the Scriptures for the truth of the matter... in the plain text.

Hi Garee,

Quote: Will they see the Son of man ? or a flash lighting from east to west to represent Him who as the Son of man will not return in flesh and blood. When viewing that portion of scripture it would seem to reflect that Jesus as the Son of man and Christ as the Son of God went separate ways after the death on the cross.

Response: --- I see that you missed the point in the above post. --- Remember I said in my post, ‘By way of explanation,’ --- The one important thing is the ‘written word’ as it has been translated down to us. And if we have the indwelling Holy Spirit, then we have the Interpreter of the Scriptures within.

--- From my in depth study, I have been observing what the Scripture says, rather than what we learned from others. I showed with different verses that Jesus is our High Priest in heaven, so He will not be coming back to earth. --- As I said above, it is Christ, 'the Son of Man,' who will be returning, but not in a flesh and blood body. --- The title Son of Man comes from this prophecy in Daniel 7:13 “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.”

--- And this prophecy will be fulfilled during and after the tribulation, as Christ takes His position as King, over all the nations to destroy the wicked, and bring righteousness and holiness back to God. --- It says this in 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all (believers) shall be made alive. --- 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him (Christ), then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

--- There is another prophecy that I will explain later about the two offices of Priest and King, and here is what happened, Jesus became the High Priest, and Christ will be the King of all nations, until they are brought under His submission.
Enough for now

I guess we will have to ask Dino what Scripture says that 'Jesus is God'? --- Or where Jesus said, "I am God."

Thanks again. I agree as you stated... "if we have the indwelling Holy Spirit, then we have the Interpreter of the
Scriptures within"

The term Son of man does not mean flesh and blood making God into a man as us. .The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:16 supports the conclusion.

Hi Garee,

Yes, the verse you gave starts with the word ‘therefore,’ which means it is dependent on what went before it. (As someone said, ‘when a verse starts with therefore, you have to look back and see what it is there for.’) --- And the context says, 5:14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. 16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

This moves us from the physical realm to the spiritual realm, where Paul writes this in 1 Corinthians 15:3 “For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.”

--- This identifies us with Christ after our spiritual birth, because, it speaks of us being ‘risen with Christ.’ Colossians 3:1 “If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory."

To relate back to your verse 16, “Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.” --- It said in 15, ‘that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him (Christ) who died for them and rose again.’ --- So we are no more to dwell on, or be influenced by, the world in which we live, but are ‘alive in the spiritual realm,’ as we are ‘raised up with Christ.’ --- And it is in this realm that the Holy Spirit leads us. --- We are 'in the world' but no longer to be 'of the world.'

Placid, it's helpful to use the "REPLY" function (click the word in the lower right corner of a post). That way, the person to whom you are responding will receive a notification and will know that someone has quoted them. Otherwise, unless they happen to scroll through the thread, they won't know you have commented on their post.

The verse I was referring was 16 "henceforth" as to the timing. I agree with what you have posted .Therefore points back to the henceforth. My grammar suffers.I dropped out of school early . Hated English .Thanks for the help like that of brother Dino.

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Thanks Dino, --- When I was on in years past often some posters would copy the whole post, taking up space. This is so much better to get just the beginning, with the opportunity to see the whole post. So thanks also to the programmer who made the change.

I reject these writings as Scripture.

Many have claimed that Melchizedek was actually a preincarnate appearance of Jesus. My position would be, no, he was not. He was a type of Christ, but he was not Christ.

However, I don't think he was. The writer of Hebrews said that he was "without geneology"....therefore he could not qualify as a Levitical priest, yet he was a priest. He was without recorded geneology, but I believe he had a father and mother.

Anyone who became a priest needed the right geneology, and it needed to be recorded. That is why no one can claim to be a Levitical priest now. The geneology records were stored in the Temple, and destroyed in AD 70.

Therefore, there is no hope of restoring the Levitical priesthood, and this wipes out the claims of many dispensationalists.

Here's some notes from the NIV Biblical Theology study bible (my favorite)


Hebrews 7:1-9 7:1–28 Christ as Priest in Melchizedek’s Order. The central exposition of Christ’s high priesthood (7:1—10:18) begins with an explanation of the nature of his priesthood in the order of Melchizedek (vv. 1–10, based on Gen 14:17–20) and moves to the theological significance of such a priesthood (vv. 11–28, based on Ps 110:4).
7:1–3 The author is guided by a pertinent question: If Jesus is a priest like Melchizedek (Ps 110:4, just alluded to in 6:20 and earlier in 5:10), what sort of priest would he be? In good interpretive fashion, the author goes to Gen 14 (the only other OT text to mention Melchizedek) to find answers. The author handles the text typologically (not allegorically), as he does elsewhere in Hebrews. Melchizedek appears in Gen 14 as a genuinely human, historical figure (not a myth, angel, or theophany) who interacts with Abraham after the patriarch rescued Lot from four eastern kings. The author notes what the text says and does not say about Melchizedek and reads it along with Ps 110:4 as imperfectly foreshadowing what Jesus’ priestly service ultimately fulfills.
7:1 Melchizedek was king of Salem. According to the sense of his name and title, Melchizedek (Hebrew for “my king is righteousness”) was a royal figure characterized by righteousness and peace (traits also associated with the future Davidic Messiah, Isa 9:6–7; Jer 33:15–16). priest of God most High. Melchizedek was a priest as well as a king and functioned as a priest toward Abraham. His royal and priestly roles are both important as foreshadowings of Jesus, but the priestly role is central here in ch. 7.
7:3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life. Because Gen 14 does not indicate Melchizedek’s origin or demise, he represents a priesthood that is eternal (“remains a priest forever”). In Genesis, where genealogies are common, the silence about an important figure’s ancestry is striking. resembling the Son of God. Melchizedek prefigures superficially what has come to be true of Jesus in profound reality (see Introduction: Themes and Argument).
7:4–7 Melchizedek’s concrete historical interactions (vv. 1b–2a) with the “patriarch Abraham” (v. 4)—who represents his descendants, the Levitical priests—reveal Melchizedek’s greatness and that his priesthood is superior to the Levitical order. First of all, Abraham “gave him a tenth of the plunder” (v. 4). According to the law (inextricably connected to the Levitical order of priests [vv. 11–12, 16, 19, 28]), “the descendants of Levi who become priests” are privileged to “collect a tenth from . . . their fellow Israelites” (v. 5). Melchizedek showed that he was superior to Abraham and his priestly descendants of the old order when he “collected a tenth from Abraham” (v. 6) and also when he “blessed” Abraham (v. 6), since “without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater” (v. 7; see Gen 1:22, 28; 48:9; Num 6:22–27).
7:8 people who die. The former priests were mortal, but Jesus “lives forever” (v. 24), a contrast previewing the ideas of vv. 16, 23–25. Jesus is the true counterpart of Melchizedek, who only superficially was “declared to be living” (v. 8), since Gen 14 does not record his beginning or end.
7:9–10 “One might even say” (v. 9) means “so to speak” or “in a manner of speaking”; the author overtly signals that his reading of Gen 14 is typological, or representative, rather than strictly literal (see Introduction: Themes and Argument). Since a father can be seen to act for his descendants, “when Melchizedek met Abraham” (v. 10) in Gen 14, Levi and his priestly descendants were, “one might even say,” also there “in the body of his ancestor” (v. 10), and they “paid the tenth through Abraham” (v. 9), symbolizing the greatness of Melchizedek’s priesthood.
(NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)

Here's some notes from my second favorite study bible:

Hebrews 7:1-9 7:1–10 Return to Main Argument: The Priestly Order of Melchizedek. This section discusses Melchizedek, drawing out points later applied to Jesus in vv. 11–28.
7:1–2 The author summarizes the brief account of Melchizedek found in Gen. 14:18–20, highlighting important interpretative points. Elsewhere in the OT, Melchizedek is mentioned only in Ps. 110:4; however, Judaism around the time of Christ did speculate about him (e.g., in the Qumran scroll 11QMelchizedek). translation of his name. In the OT (and in later Judaism) the meaning of a name could indicate a person's relationship to God (e.g., Gen. 17:5; 25:25–26; 32:28). Melchizedek. The Hebrew name means “king of righteousness” (Hb. melek, “king”; tsedeq, “righteousness”). Salem is Melchizedek's city (Hb. shalem, Gen. 14:18), and is from the same root as the Hebrew for “peace” (shalom).
7:3 Some have suggested that Melchizedek was a preincarnate, temporary appearance of the eternal Son of God. As this passage indicates, however, Melchizedek was not in fact the Son of God but someone resembling the Son of God (lit., “having been made like the Son of God”); he was an ordinary human being who was “king of Salem” (v. 1). He is without father or mother or genealogy probably means simply that this information is not given anywhere in Scripture (in contrast to the Levitical priests, whose genealogies are recorded). The next phrase should probably be understood in the same way—that is, Melchizedek had neither beginning of days nor end of life recorded in Scripture; he suddenly appeared in Genesis 14 and then disappeared. As far as the OT narrative is concerned, it shows no end to his priesthood, so in that sense he continues a priest forever. Thus Hebrews seems to view Melchizedek as an ordinary man, who was a “type” or foreshadowing of Christ (see note on Rom. 5:14). In this way, Melchizedek is comparable to the eternal high priesthood of the righteous Son of God, who is truly the king of righteousness and who brings true peace.
7:4 tenth of the spoils. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek (Gen. 14:20). Patriarch here means “father of a nation or people.” This is a reminder that all Israel traces its lineage through Abraham (see Heb. 7:9–10).
7:5–6 In the Mosaic law, God commanded the Israelites to tithe to the Levitical priesthood (e.g., Num. 18:21–24), who are themselves fellow descendants of Jacob/Israel and of Abraham. Abraham had the promises (see Heb. 6:13–15)—these promises also encompass the offspring of Abraham (see note on 7:9–10).
7:7 The superior person (Melchizedek) blessed the inferior (Abraham), thus the Melchizedek priesthood is superior to Abraham and all his descendants (implicitly including the Levitical priesthood).
7:8 he lives. Melchizedek is a “priest forever” (Ps. 110:4; cf. Heb. 7:3), hence the Melchizedek priesthood, being eternal, is superior to the mortal Levitical priesthood (vv. 23–25). The author is probably not arguing that Melchizedek never died, but that he is a type of Christ in that nothing is stated in the biblical text about his death (see note on v. 3), and so the figure of Melchizedek forecasts the risen Jesus.
7:9–10 Levi himself . . . paid tithes (to Melchizedek) through Abraham. The author's reasoning is that the offspring of Abraham (esp. Levi), who share in Abraham's promises (see note on vv. 5–6), also share in Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek, and therefore the Levitical priesthood is inferior to the Melchizedekian priesthood.
(ESV SB Notes)

Hebrews 7 King James Version (KJV)For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Melchizedek a name that gives us the understanding of God .King of kings Lord of lords. as the anointing Holy Spirit of God. Christ a Priest with no beginning or end.

Melchizedek King of Peace working with the Prince of Peace bring us a peace that surpasses our understanding was used to represent the promised demonstration of the Father and Son working as one. You could say using the Son of man as the Prince of peace working with the King.

Corrupted flesh and blood must of been used for that demonstration. A theophany or vision of things not seen with the human eye could not do what letter of the law death could not . God revealed it to Abraham as a shadow looking to the flesh and blood. Jesus was the first from another tribe to become a priest .The order was changed when the shadow Melchizedek became flesh necessary to put away sin in the flesh as to it its wage .Christ took that suffering upon his own self.

The everlasting Father with the Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Hi Garee,

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Response: --- Yes, your word ‘henceforth’ means ‘from here on.’ That when all things become new in Christ, we are in the spiritual realm, where ‘from here on’ we are guided by the Holy Spirit, if we allow Him to guide us. That means also following the truth of the Scriptures, rather than following some of the doctrines or teachings we have learned, that may not have Scriptures to back them up.

There is something else we have been taught, --- that Jesus and Christ were one person. I have used the Scripture from Hebrews 10 where Christ said, “A body You have prepared for Me.” --- And that was the body of Jesus who had to be human with flesh and blood. --- Christ could not be seen, nor did He have blood in His spiritual body, to be shed for the sin of mankind. So Christ indwelt and spoke through the body of Jesus, who could be seen. --- As an example, you hear a preacher give a profound message and you perhaps say ‘he was inspired by the Holy Spirit,’ or, that ‘the Holy Spirit spoke through Him.’ --- We have no trouble accepting that the Holy Spirit can indwell us, to speak through us, --- but there is a hesitancy to accept that Christ indwelt Jesus and spoke through Him.

Through the Gospels the name is usually ‘Jesus Christ,’ because the Gospels are all about Jesus, who was seen by the people. --- When you get in the teaching of Paul, you find that after the greeting in his letters using Jesus Christ, he changes to using ‘Christ Jesus’ or ‘Christ’ alone, giving Christ the pre-eminence, because Jesus had already gone to heaven to take up His position as High Priest.

To give one example of the misunderstanding let’s look at the favorite verses we use in Philippians 2:5 “Let this mind be in you which was also in ‘Christ Jesus,’ 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.” --- This 'coming in the likeness of men' refers to Christ as Christ came from outside of the world, to indwell Jesus who was born in the world.

--- Paul made a statement that refers to ‘the mind of Christ’ in 1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For ‘who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?’ But we have the mind of Christ.” --- So Paul’s 'wisdom' in his teaching was from ‘the mind of Christ.’
Blessings

The transfer over of God's representative kingdom of priests from one nation to the whole world was the context of John 3:25 . it questioned. Why was a person named Jesus from the tribe of Judah ceremonial baptizing new believers from other nations men and woman that did have a desire to spread the gospel as a kingdom of priest?

That revealed that the Spirit of Christ that lived in Jesus body of death was always the High priest with a beginning of days or end of life.

John 3:25 -26 seem to be the pivotal point

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John 3:25 -26

Literal corrupted flesh and blood signified as sinful was necessary. A theophany or vision could not undo what the letter of the law had performed "death" . Flesh and blood was needed to reveal to the world he is the God of all nations.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Taking away it power so we can rest yoked with Christ. Something the shadow Melchizedek could not give us,

Thanks.

Yes there is a hesitancy to accept that Christ indwelt Jesus and spoke through Him. A hope in the things seen, the kingdoms of this corrupted world. (no faith)

It would seem the father of lies tried to change that idea in Mathew 4 when flesh was at its weakest . But the father protecting Son put his words in the mouth of his Son the prophet and high apostle. . . . it is written .

The father of lies, the upside downer when communing with God makes mankind the culprit and when speaking with the Son of man tries to make not seen God the culprit. He simply has no faith he is subject to receive it.

Three time he referred to the one source of faith as it is written, as it is spoken of from above . (Right side up)

There is a hesitancy to accept that, and rightly so, because it's hogwash!

"Christ" didn't "indwell" Jesus. Jesus IS Christ (Messiah). There is no distinction, separation, or division. The two are synonymous because they are one.

Christ
Agreed!

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

God Bless!!

They have the Cohen Gene (Y chromosome) so they know who is descended from Aaron. There had been a lot of inbreeding and the "Jewish" people have a lot of genetic illness. So they are doing a lot of work to study their DNA to overcome the genetic issues they have. Soon they should be able to identify 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes just as the Bible says.

That wouldn't meet the test of Scripture, though. Jews kept geneology records to prove the "physical perfection". This was typological of Christ and his perfection to serve as the High Priest of believers.

I can see why a dispensationalist would come up with some creative solution in this regard though It is a flaw in their theology.

Jesus is a descendant of Abraham. He could not have been a preincarnate Christ because there were to many generations that had not been born yet. Abraham knew very little about Jesus other than that God was going to raise him up from the dead.

I am descended from a one of bloody mary's martyrs. An early bible translator. That is quite an honor that God would consider Abraham worthy to give them 1,000 generations. I still do not have any grandchildren, so it remains to be seen if He is going to count me worthy to keep my family going after I am gone.