Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#122
#122
Micaiah-imla said:
This is vanity and madness.

Direct quotes are useless if the scriptures don't mean what they say.

Separating similitudes and literal things in scripture are easily accomplished when the other text near to it is read.

I see no implied symbolism by the scriptures themselves when reading the account regarding Christ's 1,000 year reign in the book of Revelation.
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Amen

All we have to do is look at many OT prophecies concernign babylon, media persia, greece and Rome and the first advent to get a clear picture using already fulfilled prophecy as a guide to interpret yet fulfilled prophecy.

its not rocket science.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#124
Jan 17, 2020
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#124
Micaiah-imla said:
Letting the scripture stand as read is adding to it?

You can't be serious.
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Only if you drop the eisegesis and stick to exegesis. But you have no exegesis to prove your points.
 
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Micaiah-imla

Banned
#125
Feb 29, 2020
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#125
Dave-L said:
But you have no exegesis to prove your points.
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My "exegesis" is the Bible.

Let the Bible exegesis the Bible.

Once man gets involved in exegesis, you end up in a condition that you are exhibiting here. No disrespect. Just trying to help you out.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#126
Jan 17, 2020
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#126
Micaiah-imla said:
My "exegesis" is the Bible.

Let the Bible exegesis the Bible.

Once man gets involved in exegesis, you end up in a condition that you are exhibiting here. No disrespect. Just trying to help you out.
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If you can prove your claim of a 7-year tribulation or a pre-trib rapture using direct quotes, it is exegesis. If not direct quotes it is eisegesis.
 
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Micaiah-imla

Banned
#127
Feb 29, 2020
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#127
Dave-L said:
If you can prove your claim of a 7-year tribulation or a pre-trib rapture
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I do not see a pre-trib rapture either, you are automatically lumping me in with a group.

I'm on your side regarding the fact that there is no difference between a kingdom of God and a kingdom of heaven.

But I disagree with you on the point that there will be no literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#128
Jan 17, 2020
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#128
Micaiah-imla said:
I do not see a pre-trib rapture either, you are automatically lumping me in with a group.

I'm on your side regarding the fact that there is no difference between a kingdom of God and a kingdom of heaven.

But I disagree with you on the point that there will be no literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth.
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Jesus refuted the physical 1000 year kingdom of the Pharisees.

The 1000 years are not the kingdom, Satan attacks the kingdom when they end = the 1000 years are Satan's binding.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#129
Apr 22, 2013
13,581
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#129
Dave-L said:
Since his resurrection according to many scriptures. The kingdom exists since he first preached it.

“And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.” 2 Samuel 7:12–13 (KJV 1900)

The kingdom exists since Christ's first advent before the resurrection on the last day, while David sleeps with his fathers.

Paul says;
“For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” 1 Corinthians 15:25–26 (KJV 1900)
= he must rein until the resurrection on the last day.

Peter says;

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” Acts 2:30–31 (KJV 1900)

“Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.” Acts 15:14–18 (KJV 1900)
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Jesus Christ is currently sitting at the right Hand of the Father’s Throne constantly making intercession for us. It was promised that He would sit on King David’s Throne. When did Jesus Christ sit on King David’s political, Earthly Throne?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#130
Jan 17, 2020
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#130
PennEd said:
Jesus Christ is currently sitting at the right Hand of the Father’s Throne constantly making intercession for us. It was promised that He would sit on King David’s Throne. When did Jesus Christ sit on King David’s political, Earthly Throne?
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Earth is temporal. His kingdom is eternal in the heavens.
 
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Micaiah-imla

Banned
#131
Feb 29, 2020
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#131
Dave-L said:
the 1000 years are Satan's binding.
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And Christ's reign occurs concurrently with Satan's binding.

Revelation 20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven...[2] And he laid hold on the dragon [Satan]...and bound him a thousand years...[4]...and I saw the souls of them that...beheaded...and which had not worshiped the beast...they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years...[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed...

Easy as 1-2-3.

Is Satan even really bound then? Where do we stop with all this?

Does the new heaven and new earth REALLY come down?

Our faith should not stand on the wisdom of men (1 Corinthians 2:5).

But I would have to stand on your wisdom in this instance and deny what the scripture plainly says.
 
G

garee

Banned
#132
Mar 28, 2016
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#132
Micaiah-imla said:
This is vanity and madness.

Direct quotes are useless if the scriptures don't mean what they say.

Separating similitudes and literal things in scripture are easily accomplished when the other text near to it is read.

I see no implied symbolism by the scriptures themselves when reading the account regarding Christ's 1,000 year reign in the book of Revelation.
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The signified understanding of Revelation is implied symbolism .To include the words "thousand years". We walk by faith not after a literal temporal years in lieu of a thousand.

The phrase "thousand years" is used 9 times in the bible to indicate as unknown Six times in Revelation 20 alone..Never in respect to a literal thousand years. That kind of idea destroys the parable using the temporal things seen to give us the unseen gospel understanding .Which again is no literal thousand years. We are not of the number rather than of the faith . .
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#133
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
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#133
Micaiah-imla said:
And Christ's reign occurs concurrently with Satan's binding.

Revelation 20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven...[2] And he laid hold on the dragon [Satan]...and bound him a thousand years...[4]...and I saw the souls of them that...beheaded...and which had not worshiped the beast...they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years...[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed...

Easy as 1-2-3.

Is Satan even really bound then? Where do we stop with all this?

Does the new heaven and new earth REALLY come down?

Our faith should not stand on the wisdom of men (1 Corinthians 2:5).

But I would have to stand on your wisdom in this instance and deny what the scripture plainly says.
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Think in simpler terms. 1000 years are Satan's binding. When they end Satan is loosed. The 1000 years are not the kingdom. When they end Satan is loosed and he attacks the kingdom.
 
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Micaiah-imla

Banned
#134
Feb 29, 2020
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#134
garee said:
The signified understanding of Revelation is implied symbolism
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Not to the whole book.

Moreover, the scripture clearly states that "when the thousand years are expired" (Rev. 20:7). If there's an expiring of a thing then it has literal components.

Do spiritual things expire?
 
G

garee

Banned
#137
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#137
Micaiah-imla said:
And Christ's reign occurs concurrently with Satan's binding.

Revelation 20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven...[2] And he laid hold on the dragon [Satan]...and bound him a thousand years...[4]...and I saw the souls of them that...beheaded...and which had not worshiped the beast...they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years...[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed...

Easy as 1-2-3.

Is Satan even really bound then? Where do we stop with all this?

Does the new heaven and new earth REALLY come down?

Our faith should not stand on the wisdom of men (1 Corinthians 2:5).

But I would have to stand on your wisdom in this instance and deny what the scripture plainly says.
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Scripture plainly says that not only in the book of Revelation the last book was inspired but also is signified as in parable which without he spoke not.

Why stand on your wisdom and deny the signified and lose out on the spiritual understanding? Why the trade off and literalize the scriptures ?

Is there scripture that informs us not to look to the unseen spiritual understanding? We do have instruction as to how to rightly divide the parables using the temporal things seen like time elements (thousand years) to give us the unseen understanding for those who do walk by faith (the unseen eternal )

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
 
M

Micaiah-imla

Banned
#139
Feb 29, 2020
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#139
Dave-L,

You aren't really responding to any challenges here. You just keep repeating what has already been challenged, with no new response.

That's where I'll leave it then.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#140
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
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#140
garee said:
Why stand on your wisdom and deny the signified and lose out on the spiritual understanding? Why the trade off and literalize the scriptures ?
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When you don't take Scripture literally, you can make it say anything you want.

When Scripture is using symbolism, it will be clear from the context, usually the words "like" and "as".
 
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