The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

I know you were addressing Ahwatukee primarily... but one thing I've pointed out in the past is that wherever the phrase "the day of the Lord" is used in the same contexts as the phrase "IN THAT DAY," they refer to the same time period.

When viewing this, one can ascertain that this is not speaking of merely "a singular 24-hr day," but a very LONG time period of MUCH duration, with much transpiring within it.

It is insufficient to just look at one verse and compare it to another "such-like" verse, and conclude that they is the extent of what it entails or consists (while disregarding the remainder of the surrounding contexts and this RELATED phrase [when used in the same contexts] of "IN THAT DAY"--see Zech14's use [for example] of BOTH of these phrases to see it speaking of a TIME PERIOD of MUCH DURATION).

The same is true of the 2Th1 & 2 [both chpts'] CONTEXT, where these phrases are used ALONGSIDE each other [meaning, in the SAME CONTEXT] to refer to the same future time period (of some DURATION which PRECEDES His "RETURN" to the earth to "wipe out" the man of sin [at trib's END point--this is not the EXTENT of "the Day of the Lord," though... and this is what we see Scripture to be showing: the day of the Lord will ARRIVE at the same point in time that the man of sin will also ARRIVE [this being at the START of the 7-yr trib, not its MIDDLE, nor at its END!]).



Matt24:29 is another point-in-time which is ALSO INCLUDED in the very long period of time known as "the Day of the Lord" (it does not consist solely of THIS point in time alone, but some time before this and much time following this... As I had mentioned, its proper definition [if you will] is "a period of time [not merely of 24-hrs in length] of JUDGMENTs followed by a period of time [also not merely of 24-hrs in length] of BLESSINGs"<---ALL that TOGETHER is "the DOTL" TIME PERIOD. It will ARRIVE at a certain point in time [same time as the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin... in his time"])



2Th2:3 - "that day [the DOTL (earthly TIME PERIOD) from verse 2, the immediately preceding verse's Subject!] will not be present, if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* AND the man of sin be revealed..."

...when he's revealed, the DOTL will ALSO "be present"

no, close to the events which lead up to the end times

I know you were addressing Ahwatukee primarily... but one thing I've pointed out in the past is that wherever the phrase "the day of the Lord" is used in the same contexts as the phrase "IN THAT DAY," they refer to the same time period.

When viewing this, one can ascertain that this is not speaking of merely "a singular 24-hr day," but a very LONG time period of MUCH duration, with much transpiring within it.

In 2TH2:3 Paul was assuring the Thessalonian believers that the day of the lord had not yet come

The term'' Day of the Lord'' has a distinct meaning and in each case you cite that meaning in context is obvious to anyone. Zechariah is talking about God coming in judgement he starts by speaking of God setting his feet on the mount of Olives and doing battle with the nations surrounding Jerusalem which according to Revelation centres on Armageddon.

He then continues to describe conditions
after this. Those conditions are still future

The same can be said for Paul in both chapters 1 and 2 of Thessalonians. In Thessalonians Paul speaks of Christ coming in flaming fire inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God (2 Thess 1:8) In 2 Thess:2 he speaks of Christ destroying the man of lawlessness by his appearance and his coming.

I would be interested to know what translation you used when citing ''departure'' and what form of departure you have in mind.
Youngs Literal Translation has it as falling away
The KJV also has falling away
The NIV has rebellion
The RSV also has rebellion
The ESV has turning away from God

I only ask because 'departure is a little ambiguous Departure from what who or where? Could it be that you have mistaken this to mean Departure as in Pre Trib Rapture? just asking

Finally there is no direct reference to a Pre Tribulation arrival of Christ to resurrect and rapture believers either in Pauls writings or anywhere else.

Agreed.
And that is what I've said in many posts, and especially in a post not too many pages back (I'll try to go find which one, where I'd brought it forward for this thread, from a different thread from awhile back).

It was a very REASONABLE thing for them to [wrongly/incorrectly] be persuaded/convinced that "the DOTL *IS PRESENT* [PERFECT indicative]" because it matched so well with their PRESENT and ONGOING, VERY NEGATIVE "persecutions and tribulations" they were ongoingly ENDURING. [2Th1:4]

Ah Massorite,you have found a new place to "preach" I see.
https://www.worthychristianforums.c...re-trib-origins/?tab=comments#comment-1768829
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-origin-of-the-pre-tribulation.7933569

^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^

Obsessed with attacking pretribbers

I think that was where they were just getting started. They've moved on to include other matters as pertains to the Christian community.

I would think those with such obcessions live a unhappy life to frame their being on a negative tireless and false dynamic.

It would be one thing if they /he were right,but they COMPLETELY BLIND THEMSEVES to pretrib verses.

I get a chuckle out of "I used to be pretrib then...."

In order for them to accept the postrib model their enemy HAS TO BE test fitting of verses.
The answer...ignore them

Much like that which announces, I use to be a Sabbath keeper....And then posts in the same way as you describe. I see it as a campaign against the people of Christ. First issuing a declaration of animus toward those who are now what they state they "use to be", and then launching into a new campaign against those who are.....< Insert, Christian identity of the day. Sabbath keeper, non-Calvinist, pre-tribulation Bible students, etc...

I agree to a point as to the advice, ignore them. If we fully ignore such intent to mislead innocents who may not know scripture, and misrepresent scripture amid those who do, we give such a spirit license to continue their campaign. If they're not confronted with the truth, being they're opposed we know we shall not persuade them with truth however, the matter should pertain to those who seek the truth here. They will not have access to it if we simply ignore false speakers and their agenda and allow them to keep spreading falsehoods without rebuttal. For the sake of the truth we have to at least rebut the false hearted once in order to give the facts equal opportunity to be considered by those who may be here looking for Biblically sound truthful answers.

What is the Post-Tribulation Rapture Theory?
By Chris Schang

Question: What is the Post-Tribulation Rapture Theory?
Answer: There are four main views of the rapture in Christianity. These four views are the pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath, and post-trib rapture timing views. The post-tribulation rapture view is the belief that the rapture will occur at the end of the Tribulation period. This view believes that Jesus will rapture the church and then defeat his armies at Armageddon. And not only that but he will have them go straight up to Heaven in the rapture and then come back immediately down to Earth with him at the Second Coming. This would require that the church do a full 360 degree loop from earth to Heaven to earth again.

Some of the arguments that post-tribulation rapture believers try to make for this theory is that they say that Jesus said that he would return after the “great tribulation” which is at the end of the Tribulation period. They often cite Matthew 24:21, 29 for this belief. The problem with this thinking is that the return of Jesus at the end of the Tribulation is not the rapture, but the Second Coming. Revelation tells us that Jesus will physically touch the ground at the end of the Tribulation period, in the rapture Jesus does not touch the ground but rather comes in the air to gather believers.
Another argument that post-tribulation rapture supporters cite is that Christians have all through the church period faced intense periods of trial and persecution. While this is true and that the Bible tells us that we will face trials and tribulations in life, the Bible has clearly told us that we have the promise that we will not have to go through THE TRIBULATION as we are not destined to wrath, but to salvation through Jesus Christ. Post-tribulationists have mistaken the context of the scriptures and misapplied them here. The seven year Tribulation period is the time of God’s wrath on the world as he punishes unbelieving Israel and unrepentant sinners. God has never once punished the righteous with the wicked. He has always removed them from the time and place of his wrath. This has been illustrated over and over in the Bible. The church is made righteous by faith in the completed work of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

Another problem with the post-tribulation rapture view is that it tries to distinguish between “Satan’s wrath” and God’s wrath”. This is a confusing issue as the truth is the entire seven year Tribulation period is God’s wrath. How do we know? Because the scroll in Revelation is a two-sided scroll which in the Bible ALWAYS denotes wrath. In this case, the wrath of God will be poured out on the world as God unleashes one judgment after another until the end of the Tribulation period. Post-tribulation rapture timing advocates don’t seem to realize this. The fact is that the Tribulation period or “the time of Jacob’s trouble” is the entire Tribulation period as evidenced that the judgments are all “interconnected” together. The seals judgments give way to the trumpet judgments and the trumpet judgments give way to the bowl judgments. Further Revelation 6 clearly shows that the people on earth realize that the great and terrible wrath of God is being poured out after the have have experienced some of the judgments of God.

In summary the post-tribulation rapture timing view is not sound and biblical. The only view that is sound and takes in consideration of the entire “big picture” of Bible prophecy is the pre-tribulation rapture timing view that places the rapture before the terrible Tribulation period and the wrath of God. I hope this article has been helpful to you in understanding the truth taught in the Bible.

God bless.
Please share Rapture Forums articles with others!

In 2TH2:3 Paul was assuring the Thessalonian believers that the day of the lord had not yet come

The term'' Day of the Lord'' has a distinct meaning and in each case you cite that meaning in context is obvious to anyone. Zechariah is talking about God coming in judgement he starts by speaking of God setting his feet on the mount of Olives and doing battle with the nations surrounding Jerusalem which according to Revelation centres on Armageddon. He then continues to describe conditions
after this. Those conditions are still future

The same can be said for Paul in both chapters 1 and 2 of Thessalonians. In Thessalonians Paul speaks of Christ coming in flaming fire inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God (2 Thess 1:8) In 2 Thess:2 he speaks of Christ destroying the man of lawlessness by his appearance and his coming.

I would be interested to know what translation you used when citing ''departure'' and what form of departure you have in mind.
Youngs Literal Translation has it as falling away
The KJV also has falling away
The NIV has rebellion
The RSV also has rebellion
The ESV has turning away from God

I only ask because 'departure is a little ambiguous Departure from what who or where? Could it be that you have mistaken this to
mean Departure as in Pre Trib Rapture? just asking

Finally there is no direct reference to a Pre Tribulation arrival of Christ to resurrect and rapture believers either in Pauls
writings or anywhere else.

What is the Post-Tribulation Rapture Theory?
By Chris Schang

Question: What is the Post-Tribulation Rapture Theory?
Answer: There are four main views of the rapture in Christianity. These four views are the pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath, and post-trib rapture timing views. The post-tribulation rapture view is the belief that the rapture will occur at the end of the Tribulation period. This view believes that Jesus will rapture the church and then defeat his armies at Armageddon. And not only that but he will have them go straight up to Heaven in the rapture and then come back immediately down to Earth with him at the Second Coming. This would require that the church do a full 360 degree loop from earth to Heaven to earth again.

Some of the arguments that post-tribulation rapture believers try to make for this theory is that they say that Jesus said that he would return after the “great tribulation” which is at the end of the Tribulation period. They often cite Matthew 24:21, 29 for this belief. The problem with this thinking is that the return of Jesus at the end of the Tribulation is not the rapture, but the Second Coming. Revelation tells us that Jesus will physically touch the ground at the end of the Tribulation period, in the rapture Jesus does not touch the ground but rather comes in the air to gather believers.
Another argument that post-tribulation rapture supporters cite is that Christians have all through the church period faced intense periods of trial and persecution. While this is true and that the Bible tells us that we will face trials and tribulations in life, the Bible has clearly told us that we have the promise that we will not have to go through THE TRIBULATION as we are not destined to wrath, but to salvation through Jesus Christ. Post-tribulationists have mistaken the context of the scriptures and misapplied them here. The seven year Tribulation period is the time of God’s wrath on the world as he punishes unbelieving Israel and unrepentant sinners. God has never once punished the righteous with the wicked. He has always removed them from the time and place of his wrath. This has been illustrated over and over in the Bible. The church is made righteous by faith in the completed work of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

Another problem with the post-tribulation rapture view is that it tries to distinguish between “Satan’s wrath” and God’s wrath”. This is a confusing issue as the truth is the entire seven year Tribulation period is God’s wrath. How do we know? Because the scroll in Revelation is a two-sided scroll which in the Bible ALWAYS denotes wrath. In this case, the wrath of God will be poured out on the world as God unleashes one judgment after another until the end of the Tribulation period. Post-tribulation rapture timing advocates don’t seem to realize this. The fact is that the Tribulation period or “the time of Jacob’s trouble” is the entire Tribulation period as evidenced that the judgments are all “interconnected” together. The seals judgments give way to the trumpet judgments and the trumpet judgments give way to the bowl judgments. Further Revelation 6 clearly shows that the people on earth realize that the great and terrible wrath of God is being poured out after the have have experienced some of the judgments of God.

In summary the post-tribulation rapture timing view is not sound and biblical. The only view that is sound and takes in consideration of the entire “big picture” of Bible prophecy is the pre-tribulation rapture timing view that places the rapture before the terrible Tribulation period and the wrath of God. I hope this article has been helpful to you in understanding the truth taught in the Bible.

God bless.
Please share Rapture Forums articles with others!

I get a chuckle out of "I used to be pretrib then...."

What a load of blather that is. It goes nowhere near even scratching the surface of a post-trib rapture position. It just drips with the typical false pride and sense of entitlement always displayed so prominently by hard-core pre-tribbers.

Pre tribbers are always the road-block to sensible discussion.

What a load of blather that is. It goes nowhere near even scratching the surface of a post-trib rapture position. It just drips with the typical false pride and sense of entitlement always displayed so prominently by hard-core pre-tribbers.

Pre tribbers are always the road-block to sensible discussion.

I went back and read the article.
Still scratching my head as to what you might believe since those postrib power points are used consistently.

What is an example of a postrib rapture verse?