Are pastors, elders, apostles, teachers appointed by God, or are they self-appointed?

I'm talking about being appointed to a specific office, like apostle, teacher, elder, deacon, etcetera.

I do believe every real Christian is elected in the sense of salvation, and in terms of witnessing to this generation.

By the way, I am positive that pride and vanity causes many new Christians (especially males) to think that God has called them to some fantastic office. I had the same kind of vanity as a young believer. It's too bad, though, that some never grow out of it.

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Any joker can rent a hall, hang a shingle, start a "church", and effectively become a pastor. Why any healthy person would want to, outside of God's specific direction, is beyond me.

I have no issue with referring to someone as "the pastor of (x) congregation", but I won't address that person as "Pastor Joe" (or whatever his/her name is). Anyone who requests that others use a term of role as a title is not demonstrating proper humility for that role. I believe that God alone calls certain individuals to these roles, and He normally uses human processes to put His choice of person in a particular role. He has also given us direction in His word, and direction by His Spirit, so we can't blame Him when things go wrong.

Are you not familiar with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit? You might want to start there............then come back and talk about those folks and how they are "appointed."

HUGE DIFFERENCE between someone "requesting" that they be addressed with a Title, and members of the Congregation acknowledging their Pastor as Pastor. Jesus was addressed with several Titles out of respect, so as He directed Pastors to "feed His sheep," what could possibly be wrong with showing respect for their being anointed by Christ to "feed His sheep?"

Folks raise their children to acknowledge their elders with Titles.......... "Sir", "Mam" and such, and folks have no problem with that, but they draw the line at acknowledging their Pastor? Seriously?

Are pastors, elders, apostles, teachers appointed by God, or are they self-appointed?

Please note that I do not believe that there are any modern-day Apostles in the sense of the Twelve and Paul, so I do not think it is appropriate for any living human being to call himself an apostle. In fact, I think it is a sign of a very vain and prideful attitude to strut around, declaring one's self to be a holder of this office.

I already covered this in another thread.

But, my question relates to pastors, elders, apostles, and teachers. Some have asserted that you can appoint yourself to one of these offices.

This is the topic of discussion: what does Scripture say in this regard?

I think it's pretty evident that no one can rightly declare themselves to be a pastor, elder, apostle, or teacher. My position would be that the church recognizes the person as possessing these gifts, and the person doesn't recognize themselves as an office-holder.

And, if someone does recognize themselves as one of these office-holders, they are likely full of pride and vanity.

Here's a few articles I would use to support this:

https://corechristianity.com/resour...TsXE5NSoE0s0w-NNP0npZDtPFSJhHq8u-XFExO4TxDjss

https://thecripplegate.com/are-there-still-apostles-today/

To be honest, I think that online Christian forums tend to attract such types, as they don't want to work within the parameters of the church congregation. Their gifts are greatly exaggerated in this regard. Some who claim to be teachers are actually incoherent and don't have a well-considered theology.

Of course, it's great that folks are able to discuss topics here, and there are many knowledgeable Christians that work within the parameters of the local congregation, but there is a lot of leeway for "lone ranger Christians" to set themselves up as teachers online, too, when their local body of believers would realize that they are not equipped to teach.

Anyways, the essential question is this: does the church recognize spiritual officeholders, or do spiritual officeholders recognize themselves?

I will also note that there are many self-affirmation societies, such as the organization I mentioned, which issues apostolic certificates to individuals for a fee. So, being recognized by some society is not a measure of being a spiritual officeholder either. But, I do believe the local congregation of sound churches are best equipped to recognize those endowed with certain gifts and to recognize them as officeholders.

Additionally, God obviously calls the person to the office. Therefore, I do not deny this whatsoever. I am talking about RECOGNITION, not the actual calling itself. The church affirms the calling, though, by recognizing the fruit of the individual, which is borne by God's anointing upon the person's life. However, I believe it is prideful to declare one's self an officeholder.

And, the reality is that many who think they are teachers do not possess the gift. I have seen total loons declare themselves to be teachers.

Any joker can rent a hall, hang a shingle, start a "church", and effectively become a pastor. Why any healthy person would want to, outside of God's specific direction, is beyond me.

I have no issue with referring to someone as "the pastor of (x) congregation", but I won't address that person as "Pastor Joe" (or whatever his/her name is). Anyone who requests that others use a term of role as a title is not demonstrating proper humility for that role. I believe that God alone calls certain individuals to these roles, and He normally uses human processes to put His choice of person in a particular role. He has also given us direction in His word, and direction by His Spirit, so we can't blame Him when things go wrong.

My denomination has roots in the Azusa Street movement -- our leaders are supposed to strive to let themselves be led by the Holy Spirit -- and yet we have many preachers who don't seem to have been chosen by God.

In my denomination ministers are not salaried and don't receive gifts -- all of them have secular jobs, are self employed or are retired -- and yet some brothers are even willing to sell their moms to win a position as a preacher.

I can exercise no influence over the selection of ministers, but thank God I have freedom to read the Bible and to bent my knees before His holy throne and ask Him to teach me how to subject myself to His will.

Personally, I’ve never called anyone “Pastor ______”, just “Brother ______”. But if others call them by the term “Pastor _____”, I personally have no problem with them doing so. If they expect to be called “Pastor ______”, then I have a problem with that.

I never understood why others, when they refer to themselves, call themselves “Brother ______”. One Brother several years ago called when we were gone and on our voice mail said, “This is Brother _____ calling.” No, it’s “______”, as ‘Brother’ is not part of your birth name.