Women's Education and Having Babies

In the past 100 years or so, it has become common for women to pursue higher education and find a position in the workforce. In the US, after the shift from an agrarian society to an industrial society, we had a couple of world wars. Especially in WWII, a lot of women worked in factories to make the equipment to send overseas. But after a depression an a war, women were eager to have babies. So we had American housewives. Then there was the feminist movement, and some of the women started looking down on women who stayed home with the family. Staying home and raising children was seen as less valued.

And nowadays, it is common for parents to send both boys and girls off to college. Many men can be fertile up through their senior citizen years. But women are most fertile in their teens and twenties, and tend to hit their time of infertility in their '40's. The biological clock is ticking.

So parents send girls off to college. Then they are expected to establish themselves in their career. Many of them are single at 30, when fertility is starting to wane, and many of them look for a man to marry and to have children. Not all women do this. And men in their 30's can choose among women in their 20's who are not as career-oriented and the women in their 30's. Much of our society in the west is not sexually moral, and many women who seek to marry late have already had many partners, and the same is true of many of the men.

Biologically, human beings are ready to reproduce in their teen years. Our system of institutions and education doesn't really give people much of a chance to support a family at a young age, at least not in the west.

There are advantages to women staying home with the children, especially babies while they are still nursing. The Bible also speaks in favor of women being diligent about the home, raising children, etc.

Some of these social trends are just decades old. Are they good for society? Are they good for us as Christians? Should we as Christians rethink how we educate our children, how we encourage them to marry? Is it better that young people marry young to 'avoid fornication'? In our modern world with a weak marital institution and social acceptance of divorce, those who marry young statistically have a poorer chance at marital success than those who wait. But was likely not the case in previous eras where marriage was more highly respected, and need not be the case if Christians have a strong culture of faithfulness and successful marriage.

Would it be wise to focus more on training girls to be good wives and less on careers? If that is the case, where are the males with the corresponding set of values, training, and resources to marry these young women?

Given the trend with men forgoing college and some leaving the workforce (as shown in this article) and the rising cost of living and expense of rearing a family. Few will be able to live on one income without a plan and intentional steps put in place prior to martiage.

Just because a man is the breadwinner doesn’t mean his income is guaranteed. Especially if his employment isn’t tied to industries with high demand and few downturns. I worked in a lucrative area of finance that enabled me to exit the workforce in my thirties. I didn’t come home to be a housewife. Industry and aptitude have allowed me to pursue a new course.

I think it’s errant to create one-size-fits all solutions. God’s equipping and knitting have a purpose. Instead of applying human intellect to the question. We should seek the Holy Spirit’s input for ourselves and our offspring. He doesn’t call every woman to homemaking or provide all men with the ability to be high wage earners. You have to be practical. Not idealistic.

While self-employment is my calling. He may have a different plan for someone else. It was significantly easier to undertake when you don’t have a mortgage, car note, or credit cards hanging over your head. Financial literacy and good stewardship is a must if you’re going to live on one income.

But I chose a different course for my daughter. When she received her calling and later shared a desire to homeschool. I devised a plan to enable her to do so without being encumbered. It didn’t involve meeting someone who felt the same (she’s unmarried). It meant creating an opportunity she could pursue from home that would provide the means and flexibility she’d need.

I didn’t tell her to forgo work. That’s unrealistic. I advised her to use her singleness as a springboard for financial autonomy and the lifestyle she preferred. Her forethought will be significantly appealing to her future spouse and alleviate the strain of forsaking her earnings. Now she has the latitude of having someone teach them at home (that’s the plan) while she furthers her pursuits.

God doesn’t give men a monopoly on gifts of leadership, vision, or creativity. No one told me how to do this for myself or for her. The knowledge was inside of me all along. If I was dependent on someone to do the same. I would be looking to retirement in my sixties like everyone else.

To propose that my sex means a specific path was laid. Is to deny the reality of the God we serve. His thoughts are not like ours. His means extend our reach. We ought to use what the Creator has placed within us in the capacity He’s ordained. And cease to place ourselves and others in tiny boxes under the notion of identicalness that doesn’t exist.

Much like the Parable of Talents with its diverse dispense of coins and Paul’s discourse on spiritual gifts. The constant in each is the portrayal of difference. To some He appoints a portion and gift and to others He provides something else. The lone thing we all receive is Christ’s salvation and the Holy Spirit.

We can’t standardize our existence in response to society. We’re meant to affect the environment where we’ve been placed. And you can’t do that by being reactive or opting out. You must be proactive and stand your ground.

Overall, there’s too much time spent in the clouds pondering this and that. We must exercise diligence and put our words into action. Fantasy is the domain of children. We’re expected to mature. Faith and work go hand-in-hand.

I agree that one-size-fits-all solutions do not work. If everyone worked in finance like you, then no one would cook the food or make the furniture, etc. The paths we take will all be different if we live in a society with specialists, which is more productive for society over all.

The idea of the wife being a housewife while the husband is out at work was only around for a short time anyway, at least for most of society. In Europe, most people were probably peasant farmers from the time of the middle ages. From the colonial area in my own country, the US, most people were farmers of one kind or another, whether they owned the land or worked someone else's. The working husband and housewife situation came about after a relatively short period of induatrialization, short looking at the big picture of history.

The issue I am bringing up now is that social trends have women in my own country and others working more during prime child-bearing years and getting started on having children later in life when they are less fertile. There are also issues related to sexuality being expressed in fornication, and a tendency toward having serial live-in relationships rather than marriage among those who are unbelievers not serious about walking in accordance with the faith in this area of their lives.

The US supposedly has a 3.5% unemployment rate. Some low unemployment rates have more to do with their redefining what unemployment means than a higher percentage being employed, but the economy does seem to be doing quite well now. I wonder if those 2016 statistics hold up. For the next several years in the US, there will be fewer children going to college due to a dip in the population. If the economy were to stay strong (and usually it goes up and down over the years), they could have some good job prospects.

When the economy was poor, a lot of young men may not have seen the value in running up student loan debt only to not get a good job. The US subsidizes student loans for just about any field of study, whether or not there is a demand for it. This leads to little pressure on colleges to keep prices down. Men are more inclined to go into the trades, which pay better in the US as well. But I wonder what the idle men who do not work do all day. Are online marketers included in those stats? drug dealers? men who sit in mom's basement playing Playstation all day?

It is with great sadness that too many marriages are ending and women are stuck in places of horrifying poverty while their husbands start new relationships and new families. Women need to be equipped to be able to look after themselves. I am not saying that it is only men who are leaving. Please don't hear that but there is an epidemic of men in the church walking out. I can think of eight different women I know who were all stay at home moms and suddenly found themselves abandoned. Some had education and some did not. I won't go into all of the stories but these were good women. They were and are loving moms and involved in the church. In all of the situations their husbands took up with other women and started new families. The churches did nothing to hold the husbands accountable for their actions. Our daughters deserve the chance to learn and develop skills that could protect them.
There is also the scenario where the husband is ill, or injured or dies. There is no guarantee that the husband will be able to continue as bread winner. One of my girlfriends married a lovely man who went on to develop serious mental illness issues and he could not hold down a job. She did not leave him. She loved him and did what she could but it was on her to provide for him and the two children.
There are a lot of reasons why women should develop the talents given to them by God. Not being educated will not save the marriage but those abilities could preserve the family.
It is a sad time for the family. We need to pray hard for those at risk and those in need. I pray for a softening of the hearts of people who have gone cold to their spouses and a determination to honour God with their faithfulness to their partners.

Best thing I ever did was get my Bachelor's degree and a Teaching Certificate. I could dictate my hours, and went from 40% up to 100% when my last child was in school. I was a specialist, so my hours didn't require me to hang around. I was home often before my kids.

My husband was experienced and trained. But he didn't make much for 20 years. Or, 4 kids is very demanding on the income. When I was finally able to work, our life was so much better. Well, except I pushed myself too hard. And got sick, but then, disability for 20 years, which converted into CPP when I reached 65.

As a good mother, my kids had to do lots of work. Besides their rooms and clothes, (they all did their own laundry) then had to spend a week in rotation doing all the dishes every 3 to 4 weeks. We had weekly chores on Saturday morning, everyone had to pick 3 jobs, and sign on the work sheet. Now, my kids, including 3 boys, know how to cook, to clean, and how to take care of themselves and the house. One DIL is a doctor, my son helps her, because she makes a lot of money. All my children and their spouses work together to get the work done, and their kids are also learning how to be part of the process.

I am not a rabid feminist, but this garbage that married women should stay home, comes right out a 50's serial TV show, like Dick van Dyke. My husband helps me a lot now, as I am more disabled. Meanwhile, I have been able to pursue my academic interests, while contributing to the home. We always had dinner together as a family, and spent a lot of time with our kids, including reading the Bible, and family devotions.

If a woman wants to stay home, that is fine! Unless she is being forced by her husband, church or Christian society. If you want a good example of a hard working woman, time to read Prov. 31, and find out about the excellent woman. She was not excellent because of her looks, or even her hard work, She was excellent because she feared the Lord.

"Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised." Prov. 31:30

A good woman, is not someone who spends all their time being the wifey. A good woman is a woman who fears the Lord, however that works for her, and whatever God calls her to do.

Most people who prepare meals at home don’t have culinary training or experience working in a high end wine store. I have both and I’m adept at baking and artistry breadmaking too. I was an early member of CHOW, LTH, and a forum for industry professionals. I contemplated a career in catering but realized the demographic (I wanted to target) wasn’t plentiful in my area. Back then we catalogued our books on LibraryThing. You’ll find threads on CHOW for monthly cookbook and baking selections. We used to test the recipes and share our favorites. It was a lot of fun.

While I worked in a lucrative field I made the same investments in domesticity. Most women couldn’t run a home according to the Victorian standard or function as a butler or valet for their companion. They wouldn’t diminish their income to learn real estate or endure the drudgery of working on an organic production farm to learn gardening.

I took up sewing a year ago and I’m finishing a piece of furniture in a woodworking class. I’m preparing for a career as a designer with professional training in fashion and interior design overseas. I am adept at writing, public speaking, entertaining and etiquette. And my cultural pedigree is extensive. Ranging from opera, the symphony and fine arts. To photography, ballet and the theater. And that doesn’t include crafts or interests like golf. I can and produce most of the items in my pantry and cleaning products. Our home and lifestyle are green and our diet is organic.

I’m not sharing this to toot my horn but to demonstrate that a career doesn’t mean a woman diminishes her abilities in the home. I amplified them and patterned myself after the ladies of old. Just because someone remains at home doesn’t mean she’s an excellent household manager, cook, or anything else. There’s a heap of women on the Internet who spend their days freaking out over the perfection they see on Pinterest and Instagram or spending money to improve their skills. It isn’t a matter of availability that makes the difference but their DNA and intention. The majority instructing them weren’t stay-at-home mothers or wives. They were savvy women who saw a need and exploited it for financial gain. I know more than a few.

For the record, I’m not applying you’ve suggested that.

And the issue I’m addressing in the US is the loss of jobs and the group that was hit the hardest is your sex. Not women. You are worrying about babies and many can’t pay the bills or replace their income. The majority of entrepreneurs I know retired their husbands. It wasn’t the reverse. I think you need to recognize the current climate favors women (for various reasons) and devise a way to work around it which benefits both.


I can’t answer that for you. But I will admit the complaints and bemoaning I saw on a different site in respect to relationships were solely from men. The diatribes ran the gamut from the nuances of dating to the reality their best is not enough. I waited for the women. I expected they’d have their turn but it never happened. Without fail each thread was started by a man and it became increasingly clear something was amiss.

And the overwhelming theme was dejection and frustration. They were being turned down on Christian sites of every stripe. When I started seeing allusions to hypergamy I knew we were heading for a cliff. It was only a matter of time before MGTOW and male supremacy rhetoric worked its way into their discourse. My familiarity with both and former connections with some who share their mindset enable me to refute their principles with ease. Nevertheless, checking out is becoming the solution for more than a few.

I think you’ve raised a good question. But given my observations and the feedback I’ve heard from Christian men, there’s a disconnect taking place and the gulf is getting larger. And it matches the one I’ve witnessed in secular circles.

I suspect we’re encountering a period where passivity and softness are on the chopping block. While most don’t have my predilection for leadership; those who bring much to the table have a lot to bargain with and they’re demanding more..

There’s a danger of resting on your laurels and assuming things will remain as they’ve been. Children are the least of your worries. Women don’t believe in you in the manner they did in the past. If you couldn’t sway her mind during the first wave. Why do you think she’d listen now when we’re in the third act?

Many Christian women are feminists (I’m not for what it’s worth). Your suggestion would fall on deaf ears or encounter a backlash. They’re not coming home. You’ll need to find a better solution.

The feminist brain washing of western woman has been a disaster for both the western civilization and western woman.. By the time most of these brain washed woman shake off the feminist lies and delusions they have gone way past their fertility prime and are no longer sought after by men who generally marry to become Dads.. A man who wants a wife wants a wife that has good prospects in successfully having babies..

So men are generally looking for a woman 27 years old or younger.. This will give them the greatest chance of becoming dads..

Most woman discover that the feminist delusion is a delusion when they enter their late 30's / 40's but by then it is too late for them to change and attract a husband and start a family.. Their feminist indoctrinators told them that motherhood was slavery to the patriarchy and a door mat option that only internally misogynistic woman would lower themselves into becoming.. They swallowed this dogma hook line and sinker and now most of them have watched their hopes of becoming a mother sink accordingly..

It is near impossible to break the feminist mind contol that dominates the minds of young western woman because the Media and Academia is dominated and controlled by feminist promoting teachers and celebraties.. So the decline of the western world is now unavoidable.. Until such time as these feminist have their vice like grip of the Media and the education system the disaster of this cultural revolution will continue..

Where did you get all this misinformation? I had my first child at 21, and my 4th at age 35. I also had 2 others, and finished my Bachelor's degree and Teacher's Certificate. I certainly was not past my "fertility" prime.

I have a friend who is expecting her 3rd child and she is 43! All my children and their spouses had their children in their 30's after they trained & established their careers. They are great moms, hard workers, and happy.

I will say, I was not mature enough to have a child at 21. Six, eight and thirteen years later, I had matured a lot, and did a much better job with my kids, especially having taken child development and discipline methods in teaching. My DIL who is a doctor, is better able to take care of her children, having done training in peds, and other areas of medicine. She doesn't not hesitate to call a paediatrician is she doesn't have the information. My SIL spent a lot of time in the NICU, as well as working with kids. My daughter is a social worker. Together they have a huge amount of info about raising children. Their 14 month old is one of the happiest and well adjusted children I know.

Lay off the imaginary facts, or provide some links to good sources. I don't believe a word you said!

There’s a plethora of single Christian men in their 20s, 30s, 40s and above with no prospects. Many have gone dateless for years and that suggests a decision to forgo companionship or the absence of viable opportunities.

Numerous articles confirm that women aren’t opting out of relationships. They’re dating up. The phenomenon has been covered by major newspapers more than once. The consensus is clear. Some blame the Internet, social media, and higher earnings for the change.

It isn’t solely incels who are going without. It’s others who would be considered a good catch being turned down. Many note the dispersions on height and demand for someone 6 feet or taller. Their words echo the same things I’m hearing elsewhere.

For the record, the women in greatest demand are those who prefer relationships where he’s the head of household. This holds true in Christian and secular circles due to their scarcity and the climate regarding men. Age isn’t an impediment. She’s the unicorn they’re hoping to catch.

I’ve been dating men of that stripe for years. They’re plentiful.

Woman tend to make the mistake of personalizing everything said about woman in Gerneral.. And this is what you have done by stating you had kids when you where 21.. You see i don't look at your statement and say well Angela53510 is stating the ALL woman have their first child at 21.. I don't go ito a fit of rage because i believe Angelia53510 is claiming all woman have their first baby at 21.. See i can see that Angela53510 is talking only about herself.. So why is it that Angela53510 reads my post and comes to the conclusion that i am talking about ALL woman in the western world ???? Can anyone explain that to me?

Angela53510 then goes on to point out other exceptions to the average like a 43 woman expecting her 3rd child as if every woman can successfully bring a healthy baby to term at 43.. See i know that most woman post 40 have difficulty successfully bringing a baby to birth.. So why does Angela53510 think that bringing forth an example of an exception is going to convince me that ALL woman can have a baby at 43 ?? It's not..

That's just sad.. Really sad.. For thousands of generations woman have been having their first baby while still being 18 or 19 and handling it.. But Angela53510 was to immature ?

As for the general tone of the post.. I am not surprised by getting a hate reply from a western woman.. Sadly our society will need to come to a disaster before woman like Angela53510 have the mind chains of the feminist disaster removed..

That day is quickly coming..

I am going to add from a female perspective, if there is training women to be wives, I think its even MORE important to train men to be good husbands. thats whats essentially missing.


the changes with www2 for women came about because men were being sent off to war and so women were needed in the workforce because there were no men! when the men that survived came back they wwre so traumatised that they couldn effectively be good husbands and never trained the next generation either and so on.

That has a knock on effect.,.so my big picture solution would be to STOP WAR. Stop spending so much on iseless weapons and killing people. Stop draining our population by having armies of our strongest and fittest men going off to fight useless battles so the women have to stay at home and fend for themselves and run everything in their absence.

this isnt just an american problem its worldwide.

I was married for almost 28 years when my husband passed last year. I was a stay-at-home mom for over 20 of those years. I graduated college before marrying or even meeting my husband. I continued gaining education throughout our marriage. I was more educated than my husband, overall, and here's what that showed both of us:
I was confident that if anything happened to my marriage, I could carry on and support my children. This gave me the confidence to explain to him when I felt things were being handled wrong without fear of him leaving or trying to "punish" me in any way.

He was confident I was with him because I wanted to be with him, and not because I felt trapped or like I had to be with him to survive. He knew I had options, and still stayed with him.

Besides the confidence my being educated and trained in my field gave us in our relationship, I also had the advantage of being his confidant when he started his business. I could give him educated advice, as well as, loving guidance he wouldn't have found outside our relationship. He trusted me, so he trusted my advice. I also had the advantages of being able to earn money from home when times were tough, using my education, without neglecting my time at home or with our children.

The benefits for our children were: I had the knowledge to back-up my claims when teachers did wrong, or when they did right. My children saw how important the right education was regardless of whether one stays home with children or pursues an outside career. My daughters saw a strong, independent mother who loved and supported their father through anything.

Uneducated housewives might not have the freedom to do any of these things, may not have the security to be able to love their husbands freely without the fear of "what ifs" and may feel trapped in a marriage where they feel unsafe or unwanted, simply because they feel they have no other options. I'm not saying they won't have options without a college degree, but having an education certainly gave me MORE options than I would have had otherwise. My education benefitted both of us in our marriage.

The benefits of women being educated prior to marriage far outweighs any fear driven negatives. This doesn't have to be a college education, as college is not right for every person. My husband was a very successful man without a college degree to prove that. This is just our story, and won't necessarily be the way for every person.

If all the men in the world are "trained" to be good husbands, it still will not "make the difference" unless all the women are also "trained" to be good wives.

Both men and women must be "trained" - properly and correctly - in order for it to work.

This "training" should come from parents in the home - starting at birth - and be continuous throughout the childhood of every boy and girl and "right on into adulthood" so that it will be established for life.

This "training" should be strictly based on the Word of God - "what God says and wants" - so that everything we do falls within the biblical framework of God's Truth.

This "training" should be encouraged and supported by church and community.

If you wait until boys are men and girls are women to [try to] give them the proper-and-correct "training" -- [sigh...]

And, one more thing...

It should never come from anywhere else --- not from the government - not from the public school system - and, absolutely most definitely not from modern psychology. (God help us if we listen to this modern-mentality wisdom-of-men mumbo-jumbo crap.)

The responsibility belongs to the parents. And, no one should ever try to undermine the principle involved here - that of local family unit parental authority over children without unjust interference.

"Don't get me started..."

Please further explain this statement in way that is more detailed and specific.

(munching popcorn from the sidelines... behind the shatterproof glass...)

It is one thing for someone to follow your lead because you are their lone source of provision and sustenance. And another for them to do so when they aren’t dependent on you for their welfare. One of the ways you can discern the depth of someone’s commitment is to see how they react when their needs have been met.

Oftentimes when we are in lack we’re willing to endure discomfort without complaint for the sake of the greater benefit. But when that’s no longer the case, you’ll usually find grumbling, nitpicking, and a desire for change. If she believed in you and trusted your guidance. The plenty would have no impact on her mindset or disposition. She’d remain all-in.

It takes a certain temperament and expertise to lead and a complementary one to follow. You can’t sway either to that way of being. It’s hardwired in their person and I’ve lived it firsthand.

Modern men are not more inclined to go into trades. There is a skilled labor shortage in America.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ng-the-skilled-labor-shortage-in-america/amp/

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-weldi...eI8AW6iDxKLqaa70pYIyYsYMOKhiuIBHEiqzMIL-9oIak

More women are starting to consider skilled labor jobs because there is need, opportunity and higher wages.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2130093001

In the current job market, men are not as likely to attend college or go into the skilled labor/trade industry either.

The gig economy is growing considerably. A lot of millennials, men and women, are taking jobs with companies like Uber, Lyft and doordash.
According to the CEO of Intuit, Brad Smith: “The gig economy [in the U.S.]…is now estimated to be about 34% of the workforce and expected to be 43% by the year 2020.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnfrazer1/2019/02/15/how-the-gig-economy-is-reshaping-careers-for-the-next-generation/ampn /

The gig economy is still developing, but I don't see how a man or woman could earn a living and raise a family by working at Uber, doordash or similar companies. Doordash does not pay well and they have been knowto withhold (steal) tips from drivers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...tinues-to-lead-in-the-food-delivery-wars.html

My post was not against the idea of women working or engaging in productive activities that make money in or outside of the home. The Proberbs 31 woman sold clothing she made, rented a field, and planted a vineyard.

My concern is with prioritizing career over family.

I certainly have no intention of leaving my own family. Another reason for me as a husband to be concerned about my wife being able to support herself is if something happened to me. I suppose a man can get life insurance, but there is no guarantee of what will be done with the money.

I have read that in studies in the US upwards of 60% of no-fault divorces are filed by women. That may not capture who wants the divorce, but it is also a common thing for men not to want their wives to leave and to be abandoned or divorced unilaterall. The law favors her afterall, often giving her the children and a stream of child support if she leaves. But still, divorce is typically a value-destroying choice in terms of finances. It could be the case that women having financial support aside from their husbands has resulted in more women divorcing. There is a direct relationship, but there are a lot of other sociological issues that have contributed to that as well.

The idea of only men working outside the home as some sort of standard for Christians is not really something I can support from the Bible, considering the Proverbs 31 women. The west used to have some traditional division of labor, as many societies have. Men were generally behind the plow, and women tended to do more activities in the house. But both were involve din productive activities. The idea of the man working in the office and the wife at home was the norm in the US in the 1950's, after the industrial revolution.

But it may make sense for the man to go out and get the office job or job in the trades and for the wife to do something on the side, something higher risk, or something she can start and stop as she has children.