Are All Angels the Same?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,011
29,377
113
#21
I haven't read a word about Jews rejecting this book, new information to me. I did read the minutes of the council of the church the Catholics claim as theirs who today's scholars follow when they repeat the rejection.
Perhaps you could read this.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#22
Yes, and named as both a place of destruction and an angel of the abyss.
Lord of the Demon Locust. That has a strong parallel with Joel 2:20-30. Also, how about the locusts that decimating parts of Africa and Asia.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#23
Angels serve one purpose. Bring the message God gives to them . Other than words they have no combat skills or other attributes . They are simply spirits of truth a or spirts of error . We do no wrestle against flesh and blood the things seen. The same applies to apostles . Those sent with the message or prophecy inspired by God .Apostles are angels sent by God with the word of God

Some say the ark angel called Michael was Jesus . Meaning who is like God? .Which of course in no one. God is not a man as us. he has no beginning or end of Spirit life.

The messenger he has spoken through in the last days that God called His Son .The high apostle of our faith.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#27
two of the cherubim became Satan and Lucifer, ???
The cherub (singular) Lucifer became the Adversary (Hebrew ha Satan) or Satan. So just one cherub defected.

Note: There was no need for an "s" at the end of either cherubim or seraphim. Those are already plural in Hebrew (for cherub and seraph).

Note: Apollyon (Greek) = Abbadon (Hebrew) = the Destroyer = Satan = the Devil = the Great Dragon = that old Serpent = Belial = Beelzebub. There is only one king of demons and evil angels.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#29
Scripture doesn’t give us much information about angels, but books written in ancient time that has once been considered scripture but is now not included tell a lot about them.

It is necessary to search for when and why these books were discarded to decide if we can even consider them history. Some very learned men have done this and have decided they can be read as history, at least. Many consider it an error to discard Enoch, especially, after reading the minutes of the council that decided it wasn’t scripture.


These books tell us there are three classes of angels, each quite different from the others. What they say is not repeated in our scriptures.

Here is how they tell of angels.

The highest order of angels is the cherubim or archangel. One third of the multitude of angels rebelled against the Lord, so two of the cherubim became Satan and Lucifer, and we have Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel. The rest of the fallen angels became devils.
Greetings Blik,

Just fyi, Satan was called Lucifer before his rebellion. Lucifer is just another moniker of Satan before his fall. Lucifer means “morning star,” “son of the dawn,” “Day Star / Daystar,” or “shining star. To be clear, both the names Lucifer and Satan is referring to the same being, pre and post fall.

Also, the word "devils" is just another description of a fallen angel, also called an unclean spirit and demon. They're just different names referring to the same beings.

The middle order of angels is the Teraphim known as the burning ones. They race back and forth between heaven and earth doing God’s will, they are known as God’s messengers. Revelation speaks of them as fire. In Genesis 28 we are told of them as in Jacob’s ladder as Jacob saw them ascending and descending. Teraphim are also called idols as Rachel took teraphim with her when they left her Father, Laban as told in Genesis 31:34.
The cherubim (Ker-oob) are four angels mentioned in Ezekiel, Isaiah and Revelation. Ezekiel describes them as having four faces each with 4 to 6 wings and eyes covering their entire bodies, including their whirling wheels. There is no scripture that says that they are the middle order of angels, nor their level of rank." Also, the Greek word "aggelos" is interpreted as "messenger" for all angels, not just a certain sect.

The last order of angels is the teraphim or watchers. They are spoken of in Daniel 4:10, 17, and 18. They serve as our protectors and custodians. They are the only angels who can take on human form, as we are told in Hebrews 14:2; Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.


Where did you find a list of their different orders of rank?

Do you find any scripture that backs up the claim that we cannot believe what these books claim about angels?
I believe that Ethiopic Enoch is the word of God. Jude did as well, for he quoted Enoch 14. The information beginning in chapter 7 of Enoch sheds much light in regards to those 200 angels who took wives from the progeny of men and begetting children, also found in Gen.6:1. It also demonstrates that they were the reason for the flood, because of their defilement with women and their corruption of mankind.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#30
So here's the thing about these books we call apocrypha the works are usually written of unknown authorship or of a doubtful origin.

You would have to doubt that God through the Spirit gave us a infallible accurate source over the centuries all put together in the Bible.

If God wanted the book of Enoch, He would of inspired it. If you go down that road then that can lead to other sources that sound interesting and you possibly add it to your theology and mucking up what God wanted you to know.
Ethiopic Enoch was inspired by God and was in fact apart of the Bible up to the third century. Jude also recognized Enoch as scripture, quoting him in Jude 14:

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them: “Behold, the Lord is coming with myriads of His saints to execute judgment on everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of every ungodly act of wickedness and every harsh word spoken against Him by ungodly sinners.”
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#31
Angels serve one purpose. Bring the message God gives to them . Other than words they have no combat skills or other attributes . They are simply spirits of truth a or spirts of error . We do no wrestle against flesh and blood the things seen. The same applies to apostles . Those sent with the message or prophecy inspired by God .Apostles are angels sent by God with the word of God

Some say the ark angel called Michael was Jesus . Meaning who is like God? .Which of course in no one. God is not a man as us. he has no beginning or end of Spirit life.

The messenger he has spoken through in the last days that God called His Son .The high apostle of our faith.
What scripture limits angels to one purpose?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,851
4,504
113
#32
Ethiopic Enoch was inspired by God and was in fact apart of the Bible up to the third century. Jude also recognized Enoch as scripture, quoting him in Jude 14:

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them: “Behold, the Lord is coming with myriads of His saints to execute judgment on everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of every ungodly act of wickedness and every harsh word spoken against Him by ungodly sinners.”
Do you believe the Bible is the inspired 100% infallible Word of God?

Because it couldn't be if books are lefts out. The Spirit would be no longer in it and sustaining it. How could you trust the current Bible? What else has been taken or what else is missing?

I believe God is powerful enough to sustain His Word and protect His message.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#33
Do you believe the Bible is the inspired 100% infallible Word of God?

Because it couldn't be if books are lefts out. The Spirit would be no longer in it and sustaining it. How could you trust the current Bible? What else has been taken or what else is missing?

I believe God is powerful enough to sustain His Word and protect His message.
God sustained His Word in the book of wars of the Lord, do you know what man has done with it?

Numbers 21
14Wherefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the Lord, “Waheb in Suphah and the wadis. The Arnon
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,011
29,377
113
#34
Angels serve one purpose. Bring the message God gives to them . Other than words they have no combat skills or other attributes . .
Angels are “greater in might and power” than humans (2 Peter 2:11, and also Matthew 28:2). They use their power to battle against Satan’s demonic forces (Daniel 10:13, Revelation 12:7–8, 20:1–3).
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#35
Angels are “greater in might and power” than humans (2 Peter 2:11, and also Matthew 28:2). They use their power to battle against Satan’s demonic forces (Daniel 10:13, Revelation 12:7–8, 20:1–3).
Your right Magenta and I’m surprised that garee has not heard of Michael and his angels
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#36
Angels are “greater in might and power” than humans (2 Peter 2:11, and also Matthew 28:2). They use their power to battle against Satan’s demonic forces (Daniel 10:13, Revelation 12:7–8, 20:1–3).
Hi Thanks ,


I would offer. Messengers that bring the word of God might be used differently, greater or lesser .Depending on how we view greater or lesser. . .

Like the message to David was take some stones and a sling and the Holy Spirit within will guide the path and swat the Goliath fly.

Or the word of God to Moses . .Raise your arms with the staff and I will dry up the sand and divide the Sea used to represent judgement so it can be traveled on by nearly 2,000,000 . And close it up to those who are walking in darkness and the break of daylight . You could say he came as a thief in the night to the pagan unbelievers.

One thing I have been thinking when looking at greater and lesser is to remember at times the last comes first and first last .We should be carful how we hear in that way. lol Wife says ladies first. .Husband say . . Yes sweetie.

A pattern seen in the first born used to represent our second birth First last, last first.

If Jesus says to marvel not at the idea we must be born again .How could the power be greater that those words? His tongue has the power of life and death .He gives his children the fruit of new life a love for hearing. Miracles are simply miracles. They are all around us. His word make them greater or lesser in our eyes .

Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

One more example. The power of the word as that in which it preforms. Let there be and it became sight . That power strengthened the Son of God ,Jesus who represents our second birth. Messenger as wings of the wind. .the hearing of our new faith. Angels have no messages of their own . the are ministering spirits the voice of God.

Luke seems to be a good place to look at the word angel to help gain some understanding as to what he was strengthened with .

Luke 22:42-44 King James Version (KJV)Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground

As messengers of the gospel we have it in us but never of the messengers beautiful feed shod with the gospel, not lips or mind.

Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#38
God sustained His Word in the book of wars of the Lord, do you know what man has done with it?

Numbers 21
14Wherefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the Lord, “Waheb in Suphah and the wadis. The Arnon
The Bible. Called the book of the law. The book of life. The book of prophecy as it is written is also called. . the book of wars. It records the wars as the witness of God. The witness of man has many ideas.

Numbers 21:13From thence they removed, and pitched on the other side of Arnon, which is in the wilderness that cometh out of the coasts of the Amorites: for Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites.Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the Lord, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,

No secret books apocrypha.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#40
The Bible. Called the book of the law. The book of life. The book of prophecy as it is written is also called. . the book of wars. It records the wars as the witness of God. The witness of man has many ideas.

Numbers 21:13From thence they removed, and pitched on the other side of Arnon, which is in the wilderness that cometh out of the coasts of the Amorites: for Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites.Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the Lord, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,

No secret books apocrypha.
The book is no where to be found along with numerous books recorded in the Bible. Man has decided what they consider is important. As they have done since the beginning.