Not By Works

Tribulation passage in Matthew 24:

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

As we see, it's not an eternal salvation, but a bodily salvation.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Absolutely! He's being used by Paul as an example of the body of Christ.

What about the Abraham example in James? He's being used as a Jew. Our father, the father of the twelve tribes.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

This is not doctrine for the body of Christ.

Check this out.

One verse says Abraham is not justified by works, another verse says Abraham was justified by works.

Rom_4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Jas_2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Only one answer to that apparent conundrum, one verse is talking about justification (making righteous) and the other is talking about justification that Abraham's faith was true.

We can't just assume that when the word justified or justification is used, that it's ALWAYS about being made right with God. Sometimes justified just means justified as in "He did the dishes as well, hoping for an early reprieve from her justified anger." That justification isn't the same justification as being made right in the eyes of God.

Words ALWAYS have more than one meaning.

How do you beyond the shadow of a doubt that justified in verse 21 is talking about "being made right with God"? Especially since other verses repeatedly teach that there is only one gospel and one way to salvation - grace through faith and not works.

What you are saying goes against all other scripture, maybe you're not using the right definition of justified in James 2. Couple that with the fact that there is no more Jew or Gentile in Christ. Jews that come to Christ are EXACLTY the same as us, they don't have to work for their salvation any more than we do.

Or how about this, recognize the two audiences, Paul speaking to the body of Christ and James speaking to the twelve tribes. Easy solution. Why try and make them conform to one another. Leave it alone and believe what both say.

What James is saying goes against what Paul says unless you realize the audience. James is not a Christian epistle. It's a Jewish epistle. Paul's epistles are written to the body of Christ. It's that simple.

Yes, there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ. That's my point. If James is a Christian epistle, why would he contradict this and address the twelve tribes if they are Christians? There are not twelve tribes in the body of Christ. No Jew or Gentile. Obviously, It is not a Christian epistle.

Me thinks differently.

He died as a result of our sin.
He did this is in order to reconcile us to the father.

Romans 5:1-2

Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 4:4-7
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

The first step for salvation is to repent of the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the Holy Spirit came to convict us of. That's why Jesus had to go back to the Father.

We repent of that.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

The first step is to not say Jesus "died to set you free from sinning therefore do not sin"

The first step is to say you are now a child of God, accepted and adopted as his child.
Instill this then discipleship follows.

If a person truly knows their identity in Jesus, the security he offers then as a result of discipleship, help and so on then their natural response will be

"I want to be like you"

That involves wanting sin to decrease and Jesus to increase.
This does not just encompass putting aside deeds of the flesh but walking in the other ways Jesus walked in.

Love.

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, go the extra mile.
I could stop sinning all I want and seek to do so, but if I have not love then I'm nothing.

The package is not just stop sinning it's all encompassing.
Focus only on stop sinning then you miss the rest.

Focus on Jesus and what he has done and how he walked and what he asks of us as brothers then we have the full package.

Focus on sin only then we can become like the Pharisees.

Simple really but only when you know who you are in Jesus.

Who do you think James' audience is? It seems to me that the audience is converts from the twelve tribes.

You really boggle my mind when you say "Christian Epistle" like James wasn't written to believers at all. His audience was Jewish converts to Christianity.

What part of James doesn't apply to me and you as Christians?

HE said the WILL in a saved human being IS PRE-DETERMINED by HIM.

Acts 4:28 (HCSB)
28 to do whatever Your hand and Your plan had predestined to take place.



Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves,
but our competence is from God.


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Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

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It does eh?

Well only someone working for their salvation would see that in my post.

As for the rest I have no idea what is your point.

Oh brother!!

Are you just trying to be difficult or what?

Now isn't that something the same thing I stated?

The term twelve tribes is never used as a reference to Jewish believers. It’s always, throughout Scripture, used as a reference to the whole nation of Israel, not some called out group from that nation. We must allow Scripture to be honest.

Part of James audience clearly have not received the word and their souls were not saved.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

This verse says that God begat them (Jewish Believers) with the word of truth. The letter is addressed to the twelve tribes who were begotten by the word of truth. Agree?

Just because a Christian sins, it doesn't mean they're not a Christian.

Do this sound like it’s to the body of Christ? And please don’t spiritualize this passage. It says what it means.

James 4
1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Fighting and wars among the body of Christ?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye kill? The body of Christ?
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. The body of Christ?

The Lord begotten the nation of Israel. The OT Jewish saints were the first fruits. These tribulation Jews should be a kind of first fruits. There are conditions. The body of Christ is the main harvest.

Yes, but James is commanding them to receive the word. Why? It’s able to save their souls.