Not By Works

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Judges1318

Banned
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Nov 16, 2019
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mailmandan said:
Continuing in the faith and failing to continue in the faith separates the sheep from the goats. The exhortation in the letter is for all the Hebrews, yet only genuine believers continue. Why would the apostle Paul tell the Corinthians to - "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test?" (2 Corinthians 13:5) This letter is written to "the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia." (vs. 1) Does that mean everyone in this group of professing believers must be a genuine believer? NO. Hence, the test yourself.
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Then the Galatians were not sheep (even though Paul plainly says they were saved) because they did not continue in faith in Christ for justification.
 
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Judges1318

Banned
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Nov 16, 2019
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mailmandan said:
Temporarily getting sidetracked by legalistic teachers does not mean unsaved soil.
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They left faith in Christ for justification. No if's, and's, or but's about it. And yet they were genuinely saved. That doesn't fit well into the Calvinist leaning kind of osas doctrine that you endorse that says their leaving showed they were never with us. Don't downplay what happened to them. Paul doesn't. Not in the least.
 
CherieR

CherieR

Senior Member
#126,723
May 6, 2017
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Judges1318 said:
Absolutely not!
Although I'm not Calvinist, I'm with them on this part: You must continue to believe to the very end to be saved in the very end.
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Do you take that to mean striving to continue believing? I would think if someone believes something strongly they wouldn't have to strive to believe but rather it would be difficult to stop believing. I'm not sure if you are speaking of striving to keep believing or not.
 
star

star

Senior Member
#126,725
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
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North Carolina
#126,725
Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

This says nothing about "continuing to believe in order to keep salvation." God knew/knows we have times of doubt.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#126,726
Oct 14, 2013
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Tellion said:
Hesitantly allowing this. What would you like to know? I have a vague understanding of some of the scientific stuff, nothing I could stand toe to toe with Nye on, but it's still substantial. Or would you like source material?
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What is he Ministry about? And what scientific stuff?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#126,727
#126,727
star said:
Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

This says nothing about "continuing to believe in order to keep salvation." God knew/knows we have times of doubt.
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Exactly @Judges1318 even twists perserverance of the saints to fit his imaginary "continuing to believe in order to keep salvation" system.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#126,729
#126,729
Judges1318 said:
Then the Galatians were not sheep (even though Paul plainly says they were saved) because they did not continue in faith in Christ for justification.
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Incorrect again

According to scripture it occurs all at once.

Romans 5:1-2
Therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with our Lord Jesus Christ.

We have....
..possess peace because we are justified.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#126,730
Feb 15, 2017
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Lightskin said:
I apologize for interfering in your conversation but I must share what I once read.

Regarding evolution, why would anything want to evolve into a worm? Case closed.
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I've evolved into an ass.
Not my fault it's evolution.
In my next life I want to evolve into an Adonis.:cool:
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
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Dec 12, 2013
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eternally-gratefull said:
That’s why I sometimes hate responding to people.they take things so personally and can not just say ok, I think I see what you mean. I know your not trying to attack me, you just disagree with me on an issue and I will try to see your point, even if I disagree...

obeying the ten commands is a CONDITION many preach must be followed to be saved - WORKS

Being morally upright and doing all these works are CONDITIONS people claim one must do to be saved - WORKS

Judges/ralph and a few others believe FAITH is a CONDITION that must be done of our own power to earn salvation, if that faith is lost then salvation is lost. - WORKS

God does not save us on CONDITIONS. He saves us because we are in a CONDITION of being lost, sinners with no hope. Bankrupt souls with no place to go, and through HIS work and HIS teaching, we come to the point we look up and say yes when he offers us his grace gift,

granted unless we have faith we will never come to that point, and will die in unbelief. But he SAVES us fro the CONDITION of unrighteousness and he MAKES us into a conditions of RIGHTEOUS
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Judges believes WE must maintain faith to remain saved.......I say JESUS begins, finishes and completes the work of faith IN US....HE gifts it, He maintains it, HE sustains it, HE finishes it, He completes it......HOWEVER NO one is saved UNLESS they have faith.........

What MUST we do to be saved was the question.

The answer....BELIEVE on JESUS Christ and thou shalt be saved.......

That is my point.......and as you KNOW I have always said...IT IS ALL JESUS or fraudulent.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
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Dec 12, 2013
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Rosemaryx said:
Can you please explain why you continue to ignore the question , are you Ralph ?
Can you at least address it...
Thank you in advance...
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Good luck Rose......he cannot even address the scriptures truthfully.......we should not expect anything out of the street organ player with a dancing monkey for coin.........!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
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Dec 12, 2013
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mailmandan said:
Psychological games. :rolleyes:

If Christ has not risen, then our faith would be in vain (vs. 14) but of course, that is not the case because Christ has risen from the dead.

You have previously used 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 to teach that some believers will not hold fast to the word/the gospel that Paul preached and lose their salvation, but now you are saying "believed in vain" in verse 4 is connected with "Christ has not risen" in verse 14? So those who believe the gospel are saved, unless Christ has not risen? That's how you now interpret 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? o_O

Paul does not want to give false assurance to those who have believed in vain -- without cause or without effect, to no purpose. Genuine believers hold fast to the word/the gospel that Paul preached and are saved. Those who don't hold fast demonstrate that their belief was never firmly rooted and established.
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That is all he has..........and a street organ, dancing monkey and a false theology that smells worse than blue cheese......
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#126,736
Apr 7, 2014
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#126,736
Judges1318 said:
Actually, if your understanding of 'election' and 'perseverance' was accurate there would be zero passages in which the uncertainty of the perseverance of the believer is expressed. All God's promises are conditional on present tense believing. When present tense believing stops, and God turns you over to that unbelief, the promises end for you.
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I see no passages where the uncertainty of the perseverance of genuine believers is expressed. It's make believers who do not persevere. Saving belief in Christ continues and does not turn into unbelief, so God's promises for genuine believers is rock solid. His saints are preserved forever and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise until the redemption of the purchased possession.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#126,737
#126,737
Judges1318 said:
Actually, if your understanding of 'election' and 'perseverance' was accurate there would be zero passages in which the uncertainty of the perseverance of the believer is expressed. All God's promises are conditional on present tense believing. When present tense believing stops, and God turns you over to that unbelief, the promises end for you.
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Incorrect

Not in the Bible... no one should believe this.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#126,738
Dec 12, 2013
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#126,738
CherieR said:
Do you take that to mean striving to continue believing? I would think if someone believes something strongly they wouldn't have to strive to believe but rather it would be difficult to stop believing. I'm not sure if you are speaking of striving to keep believing or not.
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Make no mistake Cherie.....the one you addressed with this post is not of God.....what he peddles is a self sustained false gospel that denies the truth that JESUS begins, finishes and completes faith in us.....He also denies the following verse as given unto believers.

If we become faithless, he abides faithful, because he cannot deny himself.

He constantly devalues JESUS, faith, the promises of Christ, the power of Christ, the bible, the eternal security that is plainly given in scripture, the blood of Christ and without a doubt his gospel is akin to a dime store theology that 100% aligns with the same thing the MANY peddle that come before JESUS saying LORD LORD have we not done x, y, and z......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
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Dec 12, 2013
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star said:
Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

This says nothing about "continuing to believe in order to keep salvation." God knew/knows we have times of doubt.
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Absolutely....

IF we become FAITHLESS, HE remains faithful because he cannot deny himself.

JESUS gifts faith, begins faith, finishes faith, completes faith in us and we are sustained and upheld by his power......Judges does not believe these truths....he denies JESUS by his verbiage and false gospel of a self sustained faith which he peddles.......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#126,740
Dec 12, 2013
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EleventhHour said:
Incorrect again

According to scripture it occurs all at once.

Romans 5:1-2
Therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with our Lord Jesus Christ.

We have....
..possess peace because we are justified.
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What he peddles is as bad as it comes............a form of Godliness, but 100% denies the power thereof............
 
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