Not By Works

Not yet. We have a tool which will block your posts from showing up on my PC.

My turn to ask a question. Explain what Born Again means to you?

What does this subtle endorsement for Joe Biden have to do with what we're talking about?

It was up to you to believe to be saved. It's up to you to continue to believe to continue to be saved.

If you think that's a works gospel then give me chapter and verse that says trusting in Christ is a work of self righteousness.

The graciousness of salvation is not that God does your believing for you, but rather God graciously made it possible for you to believe. Because you sure can't do it yourself. You can't even know the gospel is true to begin with, let alone trust in it, except by God's gracious gift of 'knowing', the gift of faith.

Why is it so difficult to continue and can't you see a flaw in faith from the start that does not continue? Are God's saints preserved forever or not? Are believers sealed with the Holy Spirit until the redemption of the purchased possession or not?

Never said it was, although certain people turn continuing to believe into a type 2 works salvation/maintenance program.

Not all soil is "good soil." Hence the "bearing fruit" and "persevering."

Do we keep believing in our strength or in God's strength? Who drew us in the first place and who sustains us?

Hopefully the study will help you understand this more clearly.

So you get the broken record?

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe in Christ unto salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us (John 6:65), we would NEVER come to believe in Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose to believe in Christ, we must choose to believe in Him. The impulse to saving belief in Christ comes from the Father. Continuing to believe is not some self sustained maintenance program. Whether or not we continue to believe is determined by was our belief firmly rooted and established from the start. It's Christ who saves us and sustains us, but ONLY those who TRULY BELIEVE.

There is only one belief that saves and it impossible to undo what has been done.

@Judges1318 likes to make it all grey like there a different levels of belief . ...one belief that trusts in Jesus to save eternally.

Not true. Belief is an indwelling response to recieved information.


If I tell you "you can fly off that bridge if you jump off with your left foot first" you would not believe me because you can't fly period. You know this from previously recieved information.


If I told you that eating molten lava is safe and tastes good so long is it is eaten off of a public bathroom toilet seat, it is not up to you to believe it.... If you are undecided either way but want truth you would then need more information to believe or reject.... (but no... you can't choose to believe that as fact if you are honest.... you either do or you don't)

Agree, @Judges1318 is viewing "belief" on the modern day transitory, fluctuating sense, classically "belief" meant something deeper being completely persuaded and convicted...in the "seat of man" heart and soul.

I despise nothing more than straw man arguments, and will no longer be engaging you, so long as you are unwilling to/incapable of meeting me on the grounds of arguments I've actually made.

I was and have always been on CC Tellion

I see

Well with regards to indoctrination ...I am not fond of that word and teaching should never be indoctrination ...I think if you teach you need to have a sound basis for what you teach, you have done your own homework....to indoctrinate I think the teacher is only passing on information they have not thought critically about.

Would you agree?

So we have no capacity to believe...however one has to continue to believe to hold onto salvation....and yet you attribute the ability to believe to God ...yet we have to maintain something we could not really do anyway..

Hmmm this reminds me of that famous line...
"What a tangled web we weave" and in your case keep having to weave until all logic falls right out the bottom of it.

You know if you just believed the good news Jesus brought you would not need this convoluted mess...just sayin.

Have time on my hands today to stand on the truth but everyone keeps getting banned?

I have seen this painting before but different.

LOL ...it is definitely capturing my mood right about now.

The original is from Salvador Dali. Called the Persistence of Memory. I googled to find out who it was from.

Interesting... he was an interesting artist for sure.. not a big fan.

The only problem with the original is he forgot to put me in it....