Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

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Dave-L

Dave-L

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#1
Jan 17, 2020
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#1
Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

Dave L.jpg

Dave_L Posts: 1,647


Many find fault with those who claim Christendom is biblical Israel. Saying God did not replace Israel with the Church. This is true but it shows a misunderstanding of Israel's true identity.

“Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet [Christ]. You must obey him in everything.. Every person who does not obey that prophet will be destroyed and thus removed from the people [Israel].’” Ac 3:22–23

The church did not replace Israel. The Church is Israel. God removed the unbelievers from Israel and grafted believing gentiles into their place. Romans 11:17.

And, for the sake of the fathers, God reattaches the broken off but only through faith in Christ. For this Paul uses himself as an example, Romans 11:1–5. And as we preach the gospel to all nations until the end of the world Matthew 28:20 all Israel, believing Jew and gentile will be saved Romans 11:26.
 
tanakh

tanakh

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#2
Dec 1, 2015
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#2
Dave-L said:
Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

View attachment 211047

Dave_L Posts: 1,647


Many find fault with those who claim Christendom is biblical Israel. Saying God did not replace Israel with the Church. This is true but it shows a misunderstanding of Israel's true identity.

“Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet [Christ]. You must obey him in everything.. Every person who does not obey that prophet will be destroyed and thus removed from the people [Israel].’” Ac 3:22–23

The church did not replace Israel. The Church is Israel. God removed the unbelievers from Israel and grafted believing gentiles into their place. Romans 11:17.

And, for the sake of the fathers, God reattaches the broken off but only through faith in Christ. For this Paul uses himself as an example, Romans 11:1–5. And as we preach the gospel to all nations until the end of the world Matthew 28:20 all Israel, believing Jew and gentile will be saved Romans 11:26.
Click to expand...
To me it appears that many people seem to miss the whole point of Gods dealings with humanity since the fall. Gods central purpose wasn't to create a place and people called Israel. The nation of Israel was created to be used as an instrument to spread the knowledge of God on the earth and bring the whole of humanity back to him. Israel as a nation failed in its mission and instead of bringing God to the nations it copied them. Anyone who reads the Prophets will soon realise that Israel abandoned God and became rebellious Idolaters. Only a few in each generation stayed faithful to God up until the coming of Jesus. Jesus established the Church not as a separate body to replace Israel but as an extension/continuation of it. The leaders of the early church were Jews. The kingdom of God is not a physical bit of land but a spiritual reality. Christ set up this spiritual kingdom at his first coming and since then the kingdom has been spreading. Christ as the second Adam was and is fulfilling Gods original purpose to bring us back to him and to Eden which was the original Temple of God. Anyone who believes in Christ is part of Gods kingdom. Christ as the second Adam is head of the new humanity and anyone in him is also part of it. The complete fulfilment of Gods plan for us will come at his second coming.
 
bud62

bud62

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Jan 4, 2020
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washburn Tn
#3
Dave-L said:
Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

View attachment 211047

Dave_L Posts: 1,647


Many find fault with those who claim Christendom is biblical Israel. Saying God did not replace Israel with the Church. This is true but it shows a misunderstanding of Israel's true identity.

“Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet [Christ]. You must obey him in everything.. Every person who does not obey that prophet will be destroyed and thus removed from the people [Israel].’” Ac 3:22–23

The church did not replace Israel. The Church is Israel. God removed the unbelievers from Israel and grafted believing gentiles into their place. Romans 11:17.

And, for the sake of the fathers, God reattaches the broken off but only through faith in Christ. For this Paul uses himself as an example, Romans 11:1–5. And as we preach the gospel to all nations until the end of the world Matthew 28:20 all Israel, believing Jew and gentile will be saved Romans 11:26.
Click to expand...
This only with obedience , Only the doers will be justified , Even Satan is a believer,
GOD bless as HE sees fit
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#4
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#4
Dave-L said:
Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

View attachment 211047

Dave_L Posts: 1,647


Many find fault with those who claim Christendom is biblical Israel. Saying God did not replace Israel with the Church. This is true but it shows a misunderstanding of Israel's true identity.

“Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet [Christ]. You must obey him in everything.. Every person who does not obey that prophet will be destroyed and thus removed from the people [Israel].’” Ac 3:22–23

The church did not replace Israel. The Church is Israel. God removed the unbelievers from Israel and grafted believing gentiles into their place. Romans 11:17.

And, for the sake of the fathers, God reattaches the broken off but only through faith in Christ. For this Paul uses himself as an example, Romans 11:1–5. And as we preach the gospel to all nations until the end of the world Matthew 28:20 all Israel, believing Jew and gentile will be saved Romans 11:26.
Click to expand...
Romans 9"6, Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel. Gen 33:28, And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel; for as a prince, hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Rom 9:11, (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect. We have to be careful, according to context, when the scriptures have the word "Israel" in them, to separate the "nation of Israel" from "Jacob/Israel". The "all israel" in Romans 11:26, has reference to Jacob/Israel.

Acts 3:22-23, The souls that will not hear, are the souls of the natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and were never a part of Jacob/Israel.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#5
Jul 8, 2018
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#5
tanakh said:
To me it appears that many people seem to miss the whole point of Gods dealings with humanity since the fall. Gods central purpose wasn't to create a place and people called Israel. The nation of Israel was created to be used as an instrument to spread the knowledge of God on the earth and bring the whole of humanity back to him. Israel as a nation failed in its mission and instead of bringing God to the nations it copied them. Anyone who reads the Prophets will soon realise that Israel abandoned God and became rebellious Idolaters. Only a few in each generation stayed faithful to God up until the coming of Jesus. Jesus established the Church not as a separate body to replace Israel but as an extension/continuation of it. The leaders of the early church were Jews. The kingdom of God is not a physical bit of land but a spiritual reality. Christ set up this spiritual kingdom at his first coming and since then the kingdom has been spreading. Christ as the second Adam was and is fulfilling Gods original purpose to bring us back to him and to Eden which was the original Temple of God. Anyone who believes in Christ is part of Gods kingdom. Christ as the second Adam is head of the new humanity and anyone in him is also part of it. The complete fulfilment of Gods plan for us will come at his second coming.
Click to expand...
Read my post #4.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#6
Jul 8, 2018
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#6
bud62 said:
This only with obedience , Only the doers will be justified , Even Satan is a believer,
GOD bless as HE sees fit
Click to expand...
Do you believe that you deserve to go to heaven by your obedience?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8
#8
Dave-L said:
Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

View attachment 211047

Dave_L Posts: 1,647


Many find fault with those who claim Christendom is biblical Israel. Saying God did not replace Israel with the Church. This is true but it shows a misunderstanding of Israel's true identity.

“Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet [Christ]. You must obey him in everything.. Every person who does not obey that prophet will be destroyed and thus removed from the people [Israel].’” Ac 3:22–23

The church did not replace Israel. The Church is Israel. God removed the unbelievers from Israel and grafted believing gentiles into their place. Romans 11:17.

And, for the sake of the fathers, God reattaches the broken off but only through faith in Christ. For this Paul uses himself as an example, Romans 11:1–5. And as we preach the gospel to all nations until the end of the world Matthew 28:20 all Israel, believing Jew and gentile will be saved Romans 11:26.
Click to expand...
You can’t even get your op right

dispensationalists teach removal theology

it just teaches as God promised if Israel repent, god will restore them

you need to stop listening to people and start studying
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#9
Jul 18, 2017
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#9
Dave-L said:
The Church is Israel.
Click to expand...
Not according to the Bible. The twelve tribes will actually occupy Greater Israel after the Second Coming of Christ, and the redemption and restoration of Israel under the New Covenant.

EZEKIEL 48
1 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
2 And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
3 And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.
4 And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.
5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah...
23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.
24 And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion.
25 And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.
26 And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.
27 And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad a portion...
29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD...
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#10
Jul 8, 2018
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#10
Whispered said:
Yes, and what is your point in post #4? In your own words please and as to the matter of Replacement Theology or, Removal Theology.
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Thanks for catching my mistake. I mistakenly read Dave_L's original post as saying that ALL Israel would be saved, when in actuality, he said all believing Israel will be saved, in whIch I agree with.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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#11
Jul 8, 2018
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#11
eternally-gratefull said:
You can’t even get your op right

dispensationalists teach removal theology

it just teaches as God promised if Israel repent, god will restore them

you need to stop listening to people and start studying
Click to expand...
Those of Jacob/Israel, because they have already been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, are the only people who will repent of breaking a spiritual law. The natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, cannot repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern.

When the born again, spiritual filled person, repents, there is a restoration back to that person's relationship with his God. As long as he is not repentant, he has lost his relationship with his God, because God will not fellowship with sin.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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#12
Jul 8, 2018
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#12
Nehemiah6 said:
Not according to the Bible. The twelve tribes will actually occupy Greater Israel after the Second Coming of Christ, and the redemption and restoration of Israel under the New Covenant.

EZEKIEL 48
1 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
2 And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
3 And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.
4 And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.
5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah...
23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.
24 And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion.
25 And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.
26 And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.
27 And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad a portion...
29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD...
Click to expand...
The kingdom of God, which is the church, is Jacob/Israel. Which is contrived of part of every nation, kindred and tongue. which is not all of the nation of Israel. Jacob's name was changed to be called Israel, Gen 33:28.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#13
Jul 18, 2017
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#13
ForestGreenCook said:
The kingdom of God, which is the church, is Jacob/Israel. Which is contrived of part of every nation, kindred and tongue. which is not all of the nation of Israel. Jacob's name was changed to be called Israel, Gen 33:28.
Click to expand...
So what you are telling us is that Ezekiel 48 is in fact NONSENSE?

Let's hope no one believes any of your nonsense (and not on just this subject).
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#14
Jul 2, 2011
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#14
Dave-L said:
Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

View attachment 211047

Dave_L Posts: 1,647


Many find fault with those who claim Christendom is biblical Israel. Saying God did not replace Israel with the Church. This is true but it shows a misunderstanding of Israel's true identity.

“Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet [Christ]. You must obey him in everything.. Every person who does not obey that prophet will be destroyed and thus removed from the people [Israel].’” Ac 3:22–23

The church did not replace Israel. The Church is Israel. God removed the unbelievers from Israel and grafted believing gentiles into their place. Romans 11:17.

And, for the sake of the fathers, God reattaches the broken off but only through faith in Christ. For this Paul uses himself as an example, Romans 11:1–5. And as we preach the gospel to all nations until the end of the world Matthew 28:20 all Israel, believing Jew and gentile will be saved Romans 11:26.
Click to expand...
Jesus, Yeshua, and Paul teach that we become sons of Abraham by faith.. This says we are Israel, the true Israel of God, Yah.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#15
Nov 24, 2012
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#15
Romans 11:25 NASB
[25] For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel 'until' the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

How can you equate the church with Israel when Paul makes a three-way distinction...'brethren', 'Israel' and 'Gentiles'. Or are you saying a partial hardening has happened to the Church until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in?
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

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#16
Jan 25, 2015
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#16
Unfortunately this topic is complicated and takes time and lots of posts.

The theory is 100% correct that we become part of Israel when we accept Christ as our Saviour. Jesus said :
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So either Jesus lied or He changed his mind, or we form part of Israel.

The Bible teach us that God cannot change and the plan for our salvation was there at the foundation of the earth. Thus the plan is the same plan, Jesus was not on a high teaching this (Mat15:24) and then had to change his mind. He knew what He said. We are part of Israel but this is all spiritual because my DNA can’t be changed.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#17
Jul 2, 2011
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#17
He did stipulate the "lost" children of Israel. Later our Good Shepherd admitted He had another Flock other than the original, and that He was going to gather that one to the original.

The original Flock is Israel, and we gentiles are gathered as a Flock to become part of the original. Jesus, Yeshua, says so. This is all I need, not a lot of talk on it. Jesus is always succinct.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#18
Jul 2, 2011
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#18
GandalfTheWhite said:
Unfortunately this topic is complicated and takes time and lots of posts.

The theory is 100% correct that we become part of Israel when we accept Christ as our Saviour. Jesus said :
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So either Jesus lied or He changed his mind, or we form part of Israel.

The Bible teach us that God cannot change and the plan for our salvation was there at the foundation of the earth. Thus the plan is the same plan, Jesus was not on a high teaching this (Mat15:24) and then had to change his mind. He knew what He said. We are part of Israel but this is all spiritual because my DNA can’t be changed.
Click to expand...
Good to see you here still......All love and blessings. jj
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#19
Jan 17, 2020
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#19
Nehemiah6 said:
Not according to the Bible. The twelve tribes will actually occupy Greater Israel after the Second Coming of Christ, and the redemption and restoration of Israel under the New Covenant.

EZEKIEL 48
1 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
2 And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
3 And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.
4 And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.
5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah...
23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.
24 And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion.
25 And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.
26 And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.
27 And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad a portion...
29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD...
Click to expand...
After Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, the only biblical Israel is the Church with believing gentiles grafted into the faithful remaining from the twelve tribes. The unbelievers replaced by them. Which tribe do you belong to?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#20
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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#20
eternally-gratefull said:
You can’t even get your op right

dispensationalists teach removal theology

it just teaches as God promised if Israel repent, god will restore them

you need to stop listening to people and start studying
Click to expand...
Dispensationalists say the church (Israel) replaced Israel. And this is impossible. God removed the unbelievers from Israel with only believers remaining. Jesus. Paul, etc. And grafted believing gentiles into the place of the unbelievers he removed.
 
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