What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?
- Thread starter Hevosmies
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
LOL back at you buddy
. The binding of Satan does not mean all sin would cease in the world and there would be no wars, etc. Satan was bound (halted) from deceiving the nations only. Read the text and please stick with it.
3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished....7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations...
What was the deception Satan was prohibited from doing and what deceiving does he do TO THE NATIONS once again upon his release?? That's the million dollar question. I know the answer, do you? Nowhere in the above are we told that SIN would cease. Jesus taught that the world "could not receive the spirit of truth" because it neither sees or knows Him (John 14:17). The world is lost without Christ, whether Satan is out there deceiving the nations, or not. CORRECT?? We are not of the world, correct? If the world was 100% righteous, then we would be of the world, but nowhere is that taught.
The fact that Satan is bound does not necessarily mean that there will be a literal heaven on earth. A similar binding of Satan is found in the Book of Jubilees. In Jubilees 48:15, Satan was bound in order to allow the Jews to escape their Egyptian pursuers. This book also lists several other points in Jewish history when Satan was bound; and as a result, the people enjoyed prosperity and peace (Jubilees 23:25-30; 40:9; 46:2).
Again, man does not need Satan to be sinful. This, according to James 1:
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
. The binding of Satan does not mean all sin would cease in the world and there would be no wars, etc. Satan was bound (halted) from deceiving the nations only. Read the text and please stick with it.3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished....7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations...
What was the deception Satan was prohibited from doing and what deceiving does he do TO THE NATIONS once again upon his release?? That's the million dollar question. I know the answer, do you? Nowhere in the above are we told that SIN would cease. Jesus taught that the world "could not receive the spirit of truth" because it neither sees or knows Him (John 14:17). The world is lost without Christ, whether Satan is out there deceiving the nations, or not. CORRECT?? We are not of the world, correct? If the world was 100% righteous, then we would be of the world, but nowhere is that taught.
The fact that Satan is bound does not necessarily mean that there will be a literal heaven on earth. A similar binding of Satan is found in the Book of Jubilees. In Jubilees 48:15, Satan was bound in order to allow the Jews to escape their Egyptian pursuers. This book also lists several other points in Jewish history when Satan was bound; and as a result, the people enjoyed prosperity and peace (Jubilees 23:25-30; 40:9; 46:2).
Again, man does not need Satan to be sinful. This, according to James 1:
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
Daniel 8 was completely fulfilled between the 4th and 2nd centuries BC. Why do you keep quoting ancient prophesy that has been fulfilled. This is what I don't get about you futurists. You think these OT prophets had nothing informative to say to those in their era and instead wrote all about our future. If that was the case, why did they anger the Jews so much that many were put to death??
Greece’s conquest of Persia is signified by a goat trampling a ram. Interestingly in v. 5, the goat is said to “cross the whole earth without touching the ground.” In other words, the goat had not “trampled on” the earth as it had “trampled on” the rest of the Persian Empire. As stated earlier, throughout the Book of Daniel and Revelation, earth and land are metaphors for the land of Israel while sea represents the Gentile nations. The fact that this goat, representing Greece, crossed the whole earth without touching the ground may symbolize the fact that Alexander the Great did not attack or trample on Israel while overthrowing the Persian Empire. Though Alexander the Great left Israel unscathed, Antiochus Epiphanes was not as gracious.
In 167 B.C., Antiochus’ army promised to peaceably enter Jerusalem (1 Maccabees 1:29-32). Then once inside, they suddenly attacked. Here one can see how in fulfillment of v. 23 Antiochus Epiphanies was a “master of intrigue.” Having killed a great multitude, the Greeks plundered the city then set it on fire. Caught off guard, the people of Jerusalem fled. Shortly thereafter, Antiochus issued a decree forbidding Temple sacrifices to Yahweh (1 Maccabees 1:41-46). With the Jews gone and the city now overrun with Greek soldiers, Temple sacrifice ceased (Ibid.,1:29-39). Then on the 25th day of Chislev, the Greeks offered a desolating sacrifice above the Temple altar (Ibid., 1:59). Hearing what had happened in Jerusalem, some Jewish rebels conspired to take back the city. After a long, bitter war, the Jews finally took back Jerusalem. And exactly three years after the abomination that causes desolation, the Jewish people offered a lamb to God and once again continued the daily sacrifice.
Food for thought. Thus the next time something like this happened was in 70 AD with Titus.
Greece’s conquest of Persia is signified by a goat trampling a ram. Interestingly in v. 5, the goat is said to “cross the whole earth without touching the ground.” In other words, the goat had not “trampled on” the earth as it had “trampled on” the rest of the Persian Empire. As stated earlier, throughout the Book of Daniel and Revelation, earth and land are metaphors for the land of Israel while sea represents the Gentile nations. The fact that this goat, representing Greece, crossed the whole earth without touching the ground may symbolize the fact that Alexander the Great did not attack or trample on Israel while overthrowing the Persian Empire. Though Alexander the Great left Israel unscathed, Antiochus Epiphanes was not as gracious.
In 167 B.C., Antiochus’ army promised to peaceably enter Jerusalem (1 Maccabees 1:29-32). Then once inside, they suddenly attacked. Here one can see how in fulfillment of v. 23 Antiochus Epiphanies was a “master of intrigue.” Having killed a great multitude, the Greeks plundered the city then set it on fire. Caught off guard, the people of Jerusalem fled. Shortly thereafter, Antiochus issued a decree forbidding Temple sacrifices to Yahweh (1 Maccabees 1:41-46). With the Jews gone and the city now overrun with Greek soldiers, Temple sacrifice ceased (Ibid.,1:29-39). Then on the 25th day of Chislev, the Greeks offered a desolating sacrifice above the Temple altar (Ibid., 1:59). Hearing what had happened in Jerusalem, some Jewish rebels conspired to take back the city. After a long, bitter war, the Jews finally took back Jerusalem. And exactly three years after the abomination that causes desolation, the Jewish people offered a lamb to God and once again continued the daily sacrifice.
Food for thought. Thus the next time something like this happened was in 70 AD with Titus.
-
1
- Show all
Something to look at: When Jesus tells people to go out and invite everyone to the wedding and compel people to come in, notice these are people invited to the wedding, they are not the bride. Christians are the bride of Christ.
Compare this to Revelation 19 where Jesus is returning with the saints from heaven and it announces the wedding and tell me if you can make the connection
Compare this to Revelation 19 where Jesus is returning with the saints from heaven and it announces the wedding and tell me if you can make the connection
Throughout the Bible God conditioned blessings on obedience. He promised rewards for us, if we remain faithful. Ezek 40-48 is no different. The massive and glorious temple shown to Ezekiel would have taken up the whole temple mount. It would have been amazing and God would have called it His home on earth. But the people never repented and turned from their sins, thus, they never got this temple that Ezekiel was shown. It took Daniel begging in prayer for God to end their Babylonian captivity and allow them to return to their home and rebuild a much lesser temple - in difficult times.
The Ezek 40-48 passage discusses resumption of animal sacrifices and other priestly functions. It does so with God's blessing. This fact alone means it CANNOT happen after the Cross. One would have to claim that God no longer saw His Son's sacrifice as adequate for redemption and that the Jews can now "have it their way." It would be like God saying to today's Jews, "I sent you my son, your messiah, to redeem you from your sins so that you wouldn't have to sacrifice animals and keep the law anymore. You rejected my son and killed Him in the most horrific and degrading way. Okay, you win. I'll forget that ever happened, let's go back to the old way again." IF YOU BELIEVE THIS, YOU HAVE A SCREW LOOSE. IT AIN'T EVER GONNA HAPPEN!!
Why do you think God allowed a mosque and the Dome of the Rock to be built up there? They've been there since the 6th century and there is no sign that they are coming down anytime soon regardless of what a few Jewish, and Christian, fanatics want. Some Christians want it because they wrongly think Christ will reign from a third temple. This view is 180 degrees contrary to what Jesus taught.
The Ezek 40-48 passage discusses resumption of animal sacrifices and other priestly functions. It does so with God's blessing. This fact alone means it CANNOT happen after the Cross. One would have to claim that God no longer saw His Son's sacrifice as adequate for redemption and that the Jews can now "have it their way." It would be like God saying to today's Jews, "I sent you my son, your messiah, to redeem you from your sins so that you wouldn't have to sacrifice animals and keep the law anymore. You rejected my son and killed Him in the most horrific and degrading way. Okay, you win. I'll forget that ever happened, let's go back to the old way again." IF YOU BELIEVE THIS, YOU HAVE A SCREW LOOSE. IT AIN'T EVER GONNA HAPPEN!!
Why do you think God allowed a mosque and the Dome of the Rock to be built up there? They've been there since the 6th century and there is no sign that they are coming down anytime soon regardless of what a few Jewish, and Christian, fanatics want. Some Christians want it because they wrongly think Christ will reign from a third temple. This view is 180 degrees contrary to what Jesus taught.
-
1
- Show all
Mark 14:58
“We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.’ ”
Acts 7:48
“However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
Acts 17:24
God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
In light of the above one must think that all of a sudden he's gonna start. LOL.
“We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.’ ”
Acts 7:48
“However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
Acts 17:24
God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
In light of the above one must think that all of a sudden he's gonna start. LOL.
-
1
- Show all
LOL back at you buddy. The binding of Satan does not mean all sin would cease in the world and there would be no wars, etc. Satan was bound (halted) from deceiving the nations only. Read the text and please stick with it.
3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished....7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations...
What was the deception Satan was prohibited from doing and what deceiving does he do TO THE NATIONS once again upon his release?? That's the million dollar question. I know the answer, do you? Nowhere in the above are we told that SIN would cease. Jesus taught that the world "could not receive the spirit of truth" because it neither sees or knows Him (John 14:17). The world is lost without Christ, whether Satan is out there deceiving the nations, or not. CORRECT?? We are not of the world, correct? If the world was 100% righteous, then we would be of the world, but nowhere is that taught.
The fact that Satan is bound does not necessarily mean that there will be a literal heaven on earth. A similar binding of Satan is found in the Book of Jubilees. In Jubilees 48:15, Satan was bound in order to allow the Jews to escape their Egyptian pursuers. This book also lists several other points in Jewish history when Satan was bound; and as a result, the people enjoyed prosperity and peace (Jubilees 23:25-30; 40:9; 46:2).
Again, man does not need Satan to be sinful. This, according to James 1:
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
. The binding of Satan does not mean all sin would cease in the world and there would be no wars, etc. Satan was bound (halted) from deceiving the nations only. Read the text and please stick with it.3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished....7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations...
What was the deception Satan was prohibited from doing and what deceiving does he do TO THE NATIONS once again upon his release?? That's the million dollar question. I know the answer, do you? Nowhere in the above are we told that SIN would cease. Jesus taught that the world "could not receive the spirit of truth" because it neither sees or knows Him (John 14:17). The world is lost without Christ, whether Satan is out there deceiving the nations, or not. CORRECT?? We are not of the world, correct? If the world was 100% righteous, then we would be of the world, but nowhere is that taught.
The fact that Satan is bound does not necessarily mean that there will be a literal heaven on earth. A similar binding of Satan is found in the Book of Jubilees. In Jubilees 48:15, Satan was bound in order to allow the Jews to escape their Egyptian pursuers. This book also lists several other points in Jewish history when Satan was bound; and as a result, the people enjoyed prosperity and peace (Jubilees 23:25-30; 40:9; 46:2).
Again, man does not need Satan to be sinful. This, according to James 1:
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
I think the reformation began when Christ said; "it is finished" witnessed Satin fall . Previously the only show to the world focused on the Jews. When the promise of Joel was fulfilled the loosening power of the gospel increased. All the nations became kindgdoms of God a one kingdom of Priest after the new order..
The gospel key is that which loosens or bind the gates of hell. It will do its work until the last day .
My thoughts on that are "I agree 100%". I do believe Gods temple in now in us, or should I say we are in His kingdom. If you believe what you're saying here then you know His temple on earth is done. There is no point, it has served it's purpose. So if we are on the same page here then how in the world can you believe in a coming AoD?
As far as "Something like, do you believe God dwelt in both the [structure called the] Temple as well as in "the temple of His [/Jesus'] body" at the same time?",
Yes of course I believe that to be possible, my problem is not that I can't imagine God can do that, my problem is it makes no sense, it is completely backward, and Gods word says nothing about Him ordering a third temple built, at all. I do understand how you are looking at it though, I just disagree and do not believe that's what God was telling us. Also I can't find where it says "Behold, your house is left to you" I only find where it says-
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. (<---Didn't see the post after whre you corrected)
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Again this does nothing but fit perfectly with what I'm saying here. To me what you're professing here is that God can do anything and that that covers everything and any questions. What I'm trying to put forth here is that everything God does He does for a purpose, He does it in order, He does not "just do" anything. He ordered His temple built for a reason, and let it be destroyed for a reason, twice and both times in judgement. This last time it was after the promised Savior and the promise of the end of the age. All this took place and now everything is being put under Him, then He delivers a redeemed creation to the Father and dwells with us forever. That is where I think we're at. Just so you know. Also thank you for the direct answer and much more focused comment. Much appreciated, and also if I'm coming off too hard or offensive please know that I am not trying to be that way and I really like these kinds of conversations and I truly hope you have a great day.
As far as "Something like, do you believe God dwelt in both the [structure called the] Temple as well as in "the temple of His [/Jesus'] body" at the same time?",
Yes of course I believe that to be possible, my problem is not that I can't imagine God can do that, my problem is it makes no sense, it is completely backward, and Gods word says nothing about Him ordering a third temple built, at all. I do understand how you are looking at it though, I just disagree and do not believe that's what God was telling us. Also I can't find where it says "Behold, your house is left to you" I only find where it says-
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. (<---Didn't see the post after whre you corrected)
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Again this does nothing but fit perfectly with what I'm saying here. To me what you're professing here is that God can do anything and that that covers everything and any questions. What I'm trying to put forth here is that everything God does He does for a purpose, He does it in order, He does not "just do" anything. He ordered His temple built for a reason, and let it be destroyed for a reason, twice and both times in judgement. This last time it was after the promised Savior and the promise of the end of the age. All this took place and now everything is being put under Him, then He delivers a redeemed creation to the Father and dwells with us forever. That is where I think we're at. Just so you know. Also thank you for the direct answer and much more focused comment. Much appreciated, and also if I'm coming off too hard or offensive please know that I am not trying to be that way and I really like these kinds of conversations and I truly hope you have a great day.
-
2
- Show all
They don't. Never said they did. The Law is over and it isn't coming back. That's my point. Do you think we can have it both ways? Do you think God wants the Jews to resume living under the Law and the rest of us under Grace at the same time? The Ezek 40-48 passage is NOT a prediction of our future. This temple God supported. Again, it was conditioned on Israel's behavior. I repeat, anyone who thinks God would support a resumption of animal sacrifice has a screw loose.
-
2
- Show all
Yes they were ceremonial laws as shadows that looked ahead to the suffering of our bloody husband, Christ beforehand and the glory that did follow the ressurection.
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:11
Many worshiped the shadows as if they were the substance not seen as sign and wonders seekers. Neglecting the formula for walking by faith which reveals the spiritual things not seen .Again the glory that did follow at the time of reformation.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:11
Many worshiped the shadows as if they were the substance not seen as sign and wonders seekers. Neglecting the formula for walking by faith which reveals the spiritual things not seen .Again the glory that did follow at the time of reformation.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
-
1
- Show all
Okay in Luke 13:35 Jesus is speaking to them about "their house", the house that they had erected for themselves. The result the had from the twisting of His word the fit their worldly need and lift themselves up in His name, that house was the one forsaken (left desolate). Besides that this is a perfect example of you pulling a scripture out of it's context and using it in a completely different way that it's used in the text.
This example when you're saying
" My point was, the "WHEN" of when He SAID "your house IS LEFT TO YOU desolate [like, right now when I'm sayin' it! "
Yea I know and He is saying this to them right then in the middle of telling them all what the coming kingdom is like and how it will come. He had also just told the parable of the fig tree, the WHOLE TIME He is speaking of what's coming, but you take that one line out of everything around it to try to warp it to mean something it can't possibly mean in context, and you have to do this to MAKE IT fit the preconceived teaching you bring to the text. By the way this has NOTHING at all to do with Gods temple (the subject we were discussing) in any way what so ever, so I'm not even 100% sure the point you were making even if what you said was the case.
Everything you present is so cut up, referenced back, bracketed with parentheses, ans so hard to read and follow. I'm going back and reading everything you've posted trying to follow your points bit all I see is everything you're posting supports and fit's with what I'm saying, without having to take single sentences and verses from all over and string them together in a way that seems to support your view, until you dig in and see that these verses in complete context do not mean what people are claiming they do.
Honestly in this case I absolutely disagree with what I think you're trying to say it means, but to be perfectly honest I have no idea what point you're trying to make, let alone what you are saying this means. I do however agree with almost everything you were saying outside this, I only disagree that these thing are to come, outside of Jesus presenting a perfected redeemed creation to the Father to then dwell with us forever in eternity. I do believe that Jesus does still have to come after all enemies have been made a footstool for His feet to deliver us to eternity, so I hope that helps you to understand I do not think we've received our perfected or final bodies yet. I just believe the judgement, including the the AoD, the GT, and that Jesus is on His throne right now as King putting everything under him.
This example when you're saying
" My point was, the "WHEN" of when He SAID "your house IS LEFT TO YOU desolate [like, right now when I'm sayin' it! "
Yea I know and He is saying this to them right then in the middle of telling them all what the coming kingdom is like and how it will come. He had also just told the parable of the fig tree, the WHOLE TIME He is speaking of what's coming, but you take that one line out of everything around it to try to warp it to mean something it can't possibly mean in context, and you have to do this to MAKE IT fit the preconceived teaching you bring to the text. By the way this has NOTHING at all to do with Gods temple (the subject we were discussing) in any way what so ever, so I'm not even 100% sure the point you were making even if what you said was the case.
Everything you present is so cut up, referenced back, bracketed with parentheses, ans so hard to read and follow. I'm going back and reading everything you've posted trying to follow your points bit all I see is everything you're posting supports and fit's with what I'm saying, without having to take single sentences and verses from all over and string them together in a way that seems to support your view, until you dig in and see that these verses in complete context do not mean what people are claiming they do.
Honestly in this case I absolutely disagree with what I think you're trying to say it means, but to be perfectly honest I have no idea what point you're trying to make, let alone what you are saying this means. I do however agree with almost everything you were saying outside this, I only disagree that these thing are to come, outside of Jesus presenting a perfected redeemed creation to the Father to then dwell with us forever in eternity. I do believe that Jesus does still have to come after all enemies have been made a footstool for His feet to deliver us to eternity, so I hope that helps you to understand I do not think we've received our perfected or final bodies yet. I just believe the judgement, including the the AoD, the GT, and that Jesus is on His throne right now as King putting everything under him.
All one has to do relative to understanding Ezek 40-48 is to read Ezek 39 and follow the sequence of historical events. In Ezek 39, the prediction of Israel's Babylonian captivity ending is found and Israel being restored to their land is foretold. Once Israel returned from their Babylonian captivity, they rebuilt their temple, the 2nd temple. Since they did NOT build the temple described in the following chapters we know that temple cannot be a third temple. We know this because it would mean Ezekiel never foretold the construction of the second temple which was to happen in his immediate future.
Thus, the only way to see the Eze 40-48 temple is as a conditional temple which never happened, nor ever will happen in the future. 2,500 years have passed which supports my view.
The futurist view depends on a third temple and the resumption of animal sacrifices. They need a future A of D to end those sacrifices to support their position. They need God to relent to Judaism, throw out His Son's sacrifice or at least allow the Jews to ignore it and give them one system and the rest of us another system. The futurist view is so badly flawed that it is untenable and should be rejected by all Christians.
Thus, the only way to see the Eze 40-48 temple is as a conditional temple which never happened, nor ever will happen in the future. 2,500 years have passed which supports my view.
The futurist view depends on a third temple and the resumption of animal sacrifices. They need a future A of D to end those sacrifices to support their position. They need God to relent to Judaism, throw out His Son's sacrifice or at least allow the Jews to ignore it and give them one system and the rest of us another system. The futurist view is so badly flawed that it is untenable and should be rejected by all Christians.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Since you see every ALL prophecy as having been fulfilled and there is no more left, and you are living in Gods Kingdom now, are you just trying to get others out of the Word of God as well? Make them question if their seeking is futile?
I notice you never address all the things that didn't take place, still haven't taken place that would have HAD to have taken place for it to be Gods Truth. You don't seem to understand how God uses past events to show what the future holds and enlightens us on how we are to move through it, not being deceived.
We are still in the flesh. When Jesus returns all will be changed. So no matter how much history you give on PARTIAL fulfilment of prophecies, that will always be your #1 problem. The rest is all just trying to make the Word fit into your beliefs instead of letting the Word guiding you in future truth.
More food for thought
2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
I notice you never address all the things that didn't take place, still haven't taken place that would have HAD to have taken place for it to be Gods Truth. You don't seem to understand how God uses past events to show what the future holds and enlightens us on how we are to move through it, not being deceived.
We are still in the flesh. When Jesus returns all will be changed. So no matter how much history you give on PARTIAL fulfilment of prophecies, that will always be your #1 problem. The rest is all just trying to make the Word fit into your beliefs instead of letting the Word guiding you in future truth.
More food for thought
2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
First off, I would like to remind you that I've said, I do not believe "the Church which is His body" will be on the earth during the trib years [at the same time that Israel will be coming to faith, therein], but that those trib years (following our Rapture) are when Israel [the believing remnant] will come to faith [Hos5:15-6:3 ("TILL"), Dan12:1-4,10, Ezek37:12-14,20-23, Rom11:15, Isa26:16-21, Micah5:3's "UNTIL," etc], and I've stated that one of the purposes of the tribulation period [7 yrs] is for Israel to come into the new covenant [Rom11:25-29 "as concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: BUT as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes." And the "blindness/a hardening... UNTIL" etc...].
I also believe what 2 Corinthians 3 says,
7 Now if the ministry of death, having been engraved in letters on stones, was produced in glory, so as for the sons of Israel not to be able to look intently into the face of Moses, on account of the glory of his face which is fading, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more in glory? 9 For if glory was in the ministry of condemnation, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory! 10 For even that having been made glorious has not been glorified in this respect, on account of the glory surpassing it. 11 For if that which is fading away was through glory, much more is that remaining in glory!
12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness, 13 and not as Moses would put a veil over his face for the sons of Israel not to look intently into the end of that fading away.
14 But their minds were hardened; for until the present day, the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant, not being lifted, which is being removed in Christ. 15 But unto this day, when Moses shall be read, a veil lies over their heart.
And I've said that a primary impetus that will help Israel come to faith will be the event of "our Rapture/THE Departure [of us]"...
I believe the law (which they know well) will help point them to Christ (when they find themselves IN the trib yrs FOLLOWING our Rapture), and they (at that time) will "turn" to Him [not saying 100% of them will], and it is these that the Olivet Discourse is speaking of in the early parts of Matt24 (not "the Church which is His body" who will have already been raptured out by that point in the chronology), even starting at "the beginning of birth PANGS" [parallel the SEALS] at the START of that future 7-yr period (the tribulation; which leads UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS," aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," aka "the age [singular] to come"... commencing upon His "RETURN" there [Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal; and Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN"...[and so many more parallel passages speaking to this; like how "the 12" were told they will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" (see also Matt26:29 in connection with this)...etc, etc...]).
It will be the believing remnant of Israel IN/DURING the trib yrs that send forth the INVITATION TO "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [(to) the earthly MK age]
I also believe what 2 Corinthians 3 says,
7 Now if the ministry of death, having been engraved in letters on stones, was produced in glory, so as for the sons of Israel not to be able to look intently into the face of Moses, on account of the glory of his face which is fading, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more in glory? 9 For if glory was in the ministry of condemnation, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory! 10 For even that having been made glorious has not been glorified in this respect, on account of the glory surpassing it. 11 For if that which is fading away was through glory, much more is that remaining in glory!
12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness, 13 and not as Moses would put a veil over his face for the sons of Israel not to look intently into the end of that fading away.
14 But their minds were hardened; for until the present day, the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant, not being lifted, which is being removed in Christ. 15 But unto this day, when Moses shall be read, a veil lies over their heart.
And I've said that a primary impetus that will help Israel come to faith will be the event of "our Rapture/THE Departure [of us]"...
I believe the law (which they know well) will help point them to Christ (when they find themselves IN the trib yrs FOLLOWING our Rapture), and they (at that time) will "turn" to Him [not saying 100% of them will], and it is these that the Olivet Discourse is speaking of in the early parts of Matt24 (not "the Church which is His body" who will have already been raptured out by that point in the chronology), even starting at "the beginning of birth PANGS" [parallel the SEALS] at the START of that future 7-yr period (the tribulation; which leads UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS," aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," aka "the age [singular] to come"... commencing upon His "RETURN" there [Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal; and Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN"...[and so many more parallel passages speaking to this; like how "the 12" were told they will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" (see also Matt26:29 in connection with this)...etc, etc...]).
It will be the believing remnant of Israel IN/DURING the trib yrs that send forth the INVITATION TO "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [(to) the earthly MK age]
-
2
- Show all