Does God Use Suffering to Conform the Believer to the Image of Christ?

Romans 5:1-5

Justification is the starting point for all of us. We are made righteous, by the grace of God, through God justifying us. At no time is the blessing of healing a part of the package of justification. First, it was something Jesus did to show he was the promised Messiah. Jesus also healed as a result of his compassion. There is no guarantee in the Bible, of complete and total healing in the Bible.

Isa. 53:5d is constantly interpreted out of context, as well as the two parallel passages in the NT. If you read the whole chapter, you will find it is totally about justification - being healed from their sin sickness or sin wounds. The Septuagint actually translates that verse as sin sickness. Because if you read Isaiah 1, it is totally about Isaiah's call from God to go to a sin sick Israel. In fact, it would be fair to say the entire book of Isaiah is about the attempts of the prophet to get the people healed of their sin sickness. Try reading the 66 chapters, in one or two readings, and you will see the plot and story laid out.

The Bible has no content concerning healing bodily ills, at all! People misinterpret the phrase "greater works shall you do," to mean we are going to raise the dead, see limbs regrown, diseases healed. But Jesus dd not mean that. He meant that the variety and scope, of our spreading the gospel would be greater. Jesus preached mainly in Judah and Israel, also going once through Samaria. (John 4). Where did the apostles take the gospel? Rome, Asia Minor, Crete, Egypt, the Middle East and legend has it Thomas reached India, which is a range much greater than where Jesus taught.

Starting on the Day of Pentecost, when Peter preached, the first day 3000 people were saved. The book of Acts continues with that pattern, with more and more people getting saved, many more than were saved by Jesus. That's because the Holy Spirit was sent, and the disciples were lead by God to spread the gospel to all the world (Matt 28:18-20). Succeeding generations kept up the fire, and eventually the gospel was preached around the globe. That is a greater scope than Jesus preached in.

Sanctification is the process whereby God teaches us and transforms us into his image. Some people don't get sick. But many do, and serve God in different ways. God sees and knows they are hurting,. But somehow this suffering is BETTER for the person that perfect health. God knows each one of us. He knows what we need.

So your answer would also be “yes God sees us sick”?

He holds to a form of Gnosticism & is an Open Theist. Both are heresies.

Yes.

However, they are redeemed and it is a timing issue. At the resurrection, they will be fully restored.

In the meantime, the corruption in the world is serving a purpose. One purpose would be that the elect realize that sin only leads to suffering and death. Personally experiencing this heightens the believers' hatred for both, or it should if they don't engage in self deception and ignore its' reality.

Okay, if you believe God sees you sick, then I can understand why you won't expect healing from him.

This statement is a joke. I believe the Bible. All of it, every word. Do you? I already know the answer.

Scripture clearly states that God chastens and chastises His children because He loves them. God does not glory in the death or suffering of the unsaved but His children are counted as sheep for the slaughter all the day long.

Physical suffering and physical death hold no fear for those who are saved and sealed unto the day of redemption. Only those who are focused on the here and now worry themselves over physical suffering. The believer looks to a future in heaven with his Savior not an easy life here in this world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Does that mean God use sicknesses and diseases to "chastens and chastises His children"?

Where do you get that doctrine?

Those who believe in faith healing are simply so inconsistent. If they get sick some of them even pretend like they are well, and will even attack those who mention their sickness. Additionally, if they logically pursue their theology, they blame sick or infirmed Christians as lacking faith.

I believed that nonsense as a member of a cult. The leader himself was secretly using doctors. And, his wife died a very painful death because she refused to get medical treatment.

Full of inconsistencies

Here's a good article on how God uses suffering in the life of the believer.

https://corechristianity.com/resour...AjKLX6V9CR8kddwI3guebeoKkRBYJW5sNZy7tbs_EXqhU

God works in us to will and to perform his good pleasure. And suffering speaks loud and clear about which path we should take.

California mega-church cancels its ‘faith healing’ hospital visits, citing coronavirus

BY RYAN SABALOW

A prominent Northern California mega-church whose members believe their prayers heal the sick and raise the dead is advising the faithful to wash their hands, urging those who feel sick to stay home, canceling missionary trips and advising its faith healers to stay away from local hospitals.

Bethel Church leaders say they’re in close contact with local health officials, but they’re not yet canceling services for the 6,300 people who attend services each week in Redding, one of the largest regular gatherings in far Northern California.

“Through email communications, signage, and church announcements, we are actively encouraging health practices and precautions to our whole community,” Aaron Tesauro, a church spokesman, said in an email. “We believe that wisdom, modern medicine, and faith are meant to work together, and express the value for each in the pursuit of continued health and healing.”

Bethel is one of the north state’s largest institutions. Some 2,400 students from around the globe are enrolled at the Redding church’s School of Supernatural Ministry. The church has around 9,100 other members in Redding, Tesauro said.

Bethel faithful are well known in Redding for approaching strangers and offering to touch them and to pray away their ailments including at local healthcare centers — a practice that is now at odds with public health officials’ campaign to limit the spread of the novel coronavirus.

Health officials advise practice “social distancing measures” such as keeping at least six feet of space between people in public settings.

One Redding woman told The Sacramento Bee on Saturday that on Jan. 31, she was approached by two Bethel students in the emergency room at Mercy Medical Center in Redding. The pair said “they would pray over the people there and put Jesus in their hearts and this would heal us all and we didn’t need to stay at the ER and could go home,” the woman said in a text message. She asked not to be identified to protect her family’s privacy.

She said she filed a complaint with the hospital after one of the students touched her 5-year-old daughter without permission. Mercy didn’t return a message seeking comment.

Tesauro said that while students regularly visit hospitals to offer healing services, church leadership is now advising against it.

“Though we believe in a God who actively heals today, students are not being encouraged to visit healthcare settings at this time, and moreover, are taught that even under normal circumstances, they must receive permission from both the facility and the individual before engaging in prayer,” Tesauro said in the email.

Kerri Schuette, a spokeswoman for Shasta County’s Health and Human Services Agency, responded cautiously when asked what someone should do if approached by a stranger seeking to faith heal them.

“I would say that having a healthy barrier between yourself and other people is a good way to protect yourself from any of the diseases that are circulating right now,” she said.

RELIGIOUS SKEPTICS RESPOND

For skeptics of faith healing, Bethel probably would have been criticized no matter what it did in response to the virus.

As it was, there was no shortage of schadenfreude that a church known for claiming to have healed everything from brain tumors to deafness is now telling people to wash their hands to keep disease at bay.

“It’s clear that when it comes to something really serious like coronavirus, their actions speak louder than their words,” said Michael Shermer, the editor of Skeptic magazine and a professor at Chapman University in Southern California. “So, God is omniscient and omnipotent and can cure diseases if he wants, but just in case: wash your hands!”

Bill Johnson, the church’s founder, says on his website that not everyone who wants to be healed will be.

“Many visit Redding weekly, hoping that God will touch them. I am happy to report that many leave well and whole,” Johnson wrote. “But many others leave in the same condition in which they came. I refuse to blame God for this, as though He has a purpose in their disease. While Jesus did not heal everyone alive in His time, He did heal everyone who came to Him. His is the only standard worth following.”

Tesauro, the church spokesman, said the Bethel faithful believe in the healing power of prayer, but God also wants believers to practice common sense. “Healing happens, but it’s foolish to take risks,” he said in an interview.

Bethel is among a group of “charismatic” Pentecostal Christian churches whose beliefs are controversial among evangelicals. During religious functions at Bethel, church members reportedly speak in tongues and members claim gold dust and angel feathers appear out of the air.

Late last year, hundreds of church members gathered in an attempt to resurrect a 2-year-old named Olive Heiligenthal, hours after the toddler had stopped breathing and died on Dec. 14. Church members gathered to sing, “Come alive/ Come alive/ Come alive, dry bones/ Awake, arise/ Inhale the light.” Thousands of people posted on Instagram with the hashtag #WakeUpOlive.

In October 2008, a Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry student moved to Washington and started a “dead-raising team” that worked with members of the local fire department to pray over bodies found on emergency calls, according to the Redding Record Searchlight.

Johnson’s church produces a popular preaching subscription streaming service called Bethel.TV, and it sells products including apparel and books.

Bethel is perhaps best known internationally for its Christian music. Justin Bieber is a fan. The Bethel track “No Longer Slaves” was one the top three songs on his iPod playlist, according to a 2017 Buzzfeed News article. The song’s YouTube video has been played 115 million times.

LAWSUIT OVER CLIFF FALL
Bethel’s belief in the power of resurrection at one point factored into a local attempted murder investigation.

In 2010, a Redding man claimed in a lawsuit that he became paralyzed after he was either pushed or allowed to fall off a cliff above the Sacramento River by two members of the School of Supernatural Ministry after a night of drinking together, the Record Searchlight reported.

Rather than call authorities, the suit alleged the two students, who believed he had died, attempted to reach him so they could pray him back to life. After spending hours unsuccessfully trying to ford the river and push through blackberry bushes, they eventually notified authorities, who found the unconscious man and took him to a local hospital.

For a time, Redding police investigated the incident as a possible attempted murder, but no charges were filed.

Bethel Church has deeply ingrained itself into Redding’s political scene.

In 2011, the city was nearly forced to close its dilapidated Civic Center from a lack of funds. Bethel founded a nonprofit that now manages the facility. The building is still owned by the city, and the church says the nonprofit is an independent entity from the church.

The Civic Center receives $750,000 a year from the church, which uses it for its School of Supernatural Ministry. The building also is featured prominently on the church’s website.

Justin Peters recently published this video confronting WoF teachers on their frauds and defective theology of suffering.

Pretty good stuff.

Justin is a Christian who has cerebral palsy and has a ministry addressing the problems with these sorts of individuals and their teachings.

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.