You actually think Jesus was born from the Holy Spirit?

Luke 1:35 Modern English Version (MEV)
35 The angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you. Therefore the Holy One who will be born will be called the Son of God.

"...to them belong the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, comes the Messiah, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen" (Rom. 9, 5);

"Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited" (Phil. 2, 5-6);

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers - all things have been created through him and for him. He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together" (Col. 1, 15-17);

"For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" (Col. 2, 9);

"But of the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom" (Heb. 1, 8).

Our Lord constantly applied to Himself the supreme title of "Son of God," and accepted it from His followers without question:

(St. Peter) "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God" (St. Matt. 16, 16);

(The High Priest) "Then the high priest said to him, I put you under oath before the living God, tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God. Jesus said to him, You have said so" (St. Matt. 26, 63-64);

(St. John the Baptist) "Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!...And I myself have seen and have testified that this is the Son of God" (St. John 1, 29-34);

(The Blind Man) "...Dost thou believe in the Son of God? He answered, and said: Who is he, Lord, that I may believe in him? And Jesus said to him: Thou hast both seen him; and it is he who talketh with thee. And He said: I believe, Lord. And falling down, he adored Him" (St. John 9, 35-38 [Douai]);

(St. Martha) "Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one coming into the world" (St. John 11, 27).

The Fathers:

St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Romans (C. 110 A.D.):

"Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church that has found mercy in the greatness of the Most High Father and in Jesus Christ, His only Son: to the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of Him that has willed everything which is: to the Church also which holds the presidency in the place of the country of the Romans...To those who are united in flesh and in spirit by every commandment of His, who are filled with the grace of God without wavering, and who are filtered clear of every foreign stain, I wish an alloyed joy in Jesus Christ, our God."

Tatian the Syrian, Address to the Greeks (C. 165 - 175 A.D.):

"We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man."

St. Melito of Sardes, Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai (C. 177 A.D.):

"The activities of Christ after His Baptism, and especially His miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the Deity hidden in His flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, He gave positive indications of His two natures: of His Deity, by the miracles during the three years following after His Baptism; of His humanity, in the thirty years which came before His Baptism, during which, by reason of His condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of His Deity, although He was the true God existing before the ages."

Matthew 1:23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

Luke 2:7 And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.

John 1:9-14 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Galatians 4 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
4 1-7 But you must realise that so long as an heir is a child, though he is destined to be master of everything, he is, in practice, no different from a servant. He has to obey a guardian or trustee until the time which his father has chosen for him to receive his inheritance. So is it with us: while we were “children” we lived under the authority of basic moral principles. But when the proper time came God sent his son, born of a human mother and born under the jurisdiction of the Law, that he might redeem those who were under the authority of the Law and lead us into becoming, by adoption, true sons of God. It is because you really are his sons that God has sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts to cry “Father, dear Father”. You, my brother, are not a servant any longer; you are a son. And, if you are a son, then you are certainly an heir of God through Christ.


https://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Apologtc/R_Haddad/Course/Book1.htm#THE DIVINITY

"64. Kept always from guile by the gift of the Holy Spirit, we confess and write of our own will that there are not two Gods but one God; nor do we therefore deny that the Son of God is also God; for He is God of God. " https://christianchat.com/threads/open-challenge-to-upci-people-here.189447/reply?quote=4119967

The thread title is a somewhat snarky question, but you have not unpacked the question in your post; you've only provided Scripture and quotes from early writers. What are you trying to say or ask?

Thanks Dino, I am pointing out with those quotes that he early church fathers who were taught by the Apostles teaches the opposite of what UPCI teaches on different topics like baptism, and who God is.

Your friend,
Daniel

Note in the other thread, I was accused of believing that Jesus was not God the Son.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/open-challenge-to-upci-people-here.189447/page-2
see post 22

I have been known to confuse threads.

You actually think Jesus was born from the Holy Spirit?

Click to expand...

Since the Holy Spirit Himself has revealed through Luke that Jesus was supernaturally CONCEIVED by the Holy Ghost (not born from, since He was born from the virgin Mary's womb), what makes you think that something else happened?

LUKE 1
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Please note: extensive quotations from the Early Church Fathers (ECF) mean little or nothing to Bible-believing Christians. The ECF had written many good things, but they also introduced a whole host of doctrinal errors. Scripture is our final authority.

I would like to point out something about the Roman Catholic Church, and the Roman Empire, as well as some others, that some people like to embrace the Bible for a selfish reason to exalt themselves and give them power.

Which we see that with the Roman Catholic Church years as they went forth persecuting, and pushing for power like the Roman Empire did.

And with England that believes the stone of destiny is in England and the throne of David is in England giving them the God given right to rule the world, which they are being sneaky about it using America as the tool to make this happen, surprise, and the royal family descendents of David.

And Joseph Smith with his wrong foundation that says they will be as gods and ruling their own planet.

And the new age movement interpreting the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be greater and spiritual, godlike, provided by the New Age Christ in the future.

And what some people write back then does not carry much weight for people could say that they could write of their own interpretation, and the Bible tells it all anyway.

But the point is some people embrace the Bible but interpret it, and believe that they get some kind of power because of it that is not noted in the Bible, which the Roman Empire was pushing for power, and the Roman Empire does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts them down, and they will devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces, when the world is split in to ten sections with a leader in each section which they came together because it was the Roman Empire's plan that all Caucasian led nations, and those taken over by Caucasians came together, and the world came together, but it was probably the main plan of England.

So the Roman Empire interpreted the Bible according to they have the right to push for power, and control, and now they interpret the Bible according to the occult, and evolution so the Pope and Vatican will change dramatically.

But the fact they have the name Holy Roman Empire, and the Roman Catholic Church, testifies of their arrogance, and self exaltation.

Jesus said do not call any man father in a spiritual sense, and there they go calling the Pope, and the priests, father.

Do not make an image of anything and bow down to it, and God said I do not give my glory to another, but there they go exalting Mary and bowing down to a statue of her.

And Jesus told a man why call me good, for there is only one good and that is God, but there they go saying Holy Roman Empire, and Holy Father.

The Roman Empire is all about power, and control, and ruling, so that is how they interpret scriptures.

So I do not care what they have to say about anything for if they are like this then they are not led of the Spirit, but many governments that would embrace the Bible would think it gave them power, and control, and there is no Gentile nation that has ever, nor will ever embrace the Bible alone, but they always embrace the Bible and their heathen ways for look at America that allows Satanism, the occult, and the new age movement, and the love of money which is the root of all evil.

We should be careful on how we hear the gospel

There are two kinds of church fathers spoken of in the scripture .One true the other counterfeit.

You are accrediting something to the apostles which they are not and have not.. I would say it represents the things of men that need refining . . .a work of God. God will not share that glory with the things of men. Apostles are not the teachers as venerable masters.

When Paul spoke the noble Berean's in Acts were moved by the Holy Spirit daily to see if things were so. . by comparing what was said to what was newly said .Faith to faith or understanding to understanding. God protecting the integrity of it. . giving it to us freely as our armor.

Jesus said one is our Teacher in heaven . . . call no man teacher on earth in that way. For one is our Good Master in heaven. We walk by faith the unseen eternal

If they were not taught of God as the things of God's witness. But rather the things of men as the witness of men .Is not the witness of God as the things of Him greater? Those kind of Church fathers are what the reformation reformed to the proper government of God as those who walk by faith. . the unseen eternal, And not after the temporal things of men,. Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus. The fleshly temporal things of men as that seen . When he left there can be no forgiveness .The Holy Spirit not seen who dwells in the believer as the things of God must be sought after as our teacher and comforter who also brings to our minds that which he has taught us.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men .Mathew 16:22-23

Of course the Holy Spirit of God caused the Body of Jesus to come into being.. The plain test of the account of the scriptures reveals this..

Born from the Holy Spirit and also the House and Lineage of David thru the Seed of Joseph.

Their is a difference between a Virgin Birth and Virgin of Virginity Birth. One of them is not the natural order and under the law, along with being in conformity with prophecy

Not the *seed of Joseph* but the *seed of Abraham*.
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:16)

Joseph (descended from Solomon) was the legal foster father of Jesus, and as far as the Jews were concerned He was the son of the carpenter. But in reality Christ was born of the virgin Mary (descended from Nathan). Thus Christ was "the son of David" (descendant of David), but David called Him *Lord*.
Not sure what you mean by this. You would need to clarify what you mean.

First and foremost the Seed of Joseph is of the seed of Abraham which goes back or originates from the Seed of Adam.

Rom 1:3 ConcerningG4012 hisG848 SonG5207 JesusG2424 ChristG5547 ourG2257 Lord,G2962 whichG3588 was madeG1096 ofG1537 the seedG4690 of DavidG1138 accordingG2596 to the flesh;G4561

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Look up Seed in the Greek it is Sperma; sperm comes from a man.

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Virgin Birth is a young woman of marriageable age or newly married woman that conceives and bares a child.
Like a Teenager would be considered a Young woman of marriageable age for example. A Teenage Pregnancy leads to a Teenage birth just as an Virgin Pregnancy leads to a Virgin Birth.

There are at least four instances that Joseph is referred to as the Father; not listing all four.

Joh_1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Joh_6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Also prophecy is not open to any private interpretation and their is no mention of a virgin of virginity birth but virgin birth.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
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Now a Virgin of Virginity birth is a woman that somehow immaculately get's pregnant without the Seed/Sperma of Man; Refer to God Man pagan deities such as Tammuz, Hercules and a plethora of others.

They didn’t understand the virgin birth. They thought Joseph was the father of Jesus.

The answer to the question in John 6 would be a big fat NO!

Through adoption, Jesus would legally be considered the son of Joseph... though Jesus Himself knows His true Father

We ourselves are heirs through adoption

You are either way off base or totally confused, since Mary conceived BEFORE she had any relations with Joseph. So there was no seed on Joseph involved.

I am thinking that virgin birth is self explanatory. You are correct that someone who had not conceptualized the "not of man" element, might think that someone who was "born of a virgin" might mean that they were a virgin, "knew", and conceived.



I personally, don't think this would be a common misconception at all though. As it is clear in scripture that she conceives without knowing a man. Yes, there are similarities between that and legends and probably interesting to study is the timeline of these myths.


Unless you have a further distinction to be made. There are additional angles to present, but unless they are discussed, I don't feel so inclined. Regardless, the "immaculate conception" requires faith/reasoning either way.

he states he is unsure of his spiritual status, so we have we have

I'm already aware that few will belief and many wine glass is already full with the lies. Sometimes one just has to appreciate the knowledg he has been bestowed.

The Generation of Jesus Christ and Joseph is One; They are both the of the house and lineage of David thru Solomon.

The Genealogy of Jesus Christ
Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

all I did was add exclamation marks and bold below for clarity in Mat 1:16 below for clarity

And Jacob begat Joseph "the husband of Mary", of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

1Co 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. = Wisdom

Pro 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.

The Woman along with the Woman's seed is of The Man because

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Their is one kind of flesh of men which is male and female because

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Bold Face lie

read between the lines of the verses and understand the culture and tradition of the Jews

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Luk 2:4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David)
Luk 2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

oh great

another soothsayer of unknown origins who professes no knowledge of what they believe but expects to be taken seriously as the current reigning monarch of the forums

and by the way, there is spelled THERE and not their. their refers to someone. there refers to an apple or similar

example: their wedding was in February

the apple was over there

belief should be believe

obviously you do believe something, but it is not Christianity

seriously. you guys just cannot hide that fact