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Barrylee

New member
Nov 22, 2019
5
0
1
#61
Can I share my Testimony:
My mother is from South America, brought up Catholic. She said the church services back then spoke only in Latin. She could not understood what was said. She came to the US and married my father who left us when I and my sister were very little. Someone explained salvation through faith alone in Christ and my mother believed and for the first time saw herself as sinful and needing a Savior. During this time, as a 4 year old, I must have heard my mother’s conversations and asked our pastor about Jesus. He helped me “ask Jesus to come into my heart and cleanse me from sins.” All through my life - I relied on that experience as a 4 year old as assurance of my salvation. Knowing that my sinful life did not exclude me from heaven but maybe loss of rewards, I sinned freely and without concern. I started getting drunk with friends, experimenting with drugs as an early teenager. Stealing and breaking into cars and occasional houses with friends. Getting into trouble and being wild. I was in a fatal car accident when I was 19. My friends and I were drunk and speeding one night and flew by a cop car - we outran the cop by going 145 mph in my friends Porsche before we hit a dip in the road, lost control, and had a catastrophic crash, where the driver was ejected and died. After hearing his mother screaming at the hospital I said to myself no more drinking. But it didn’t stick, at urging of my friends, back I went to partying. I war arrested for a D.U.I charge a year later and occasionally locked up for the night for public drunkenness or disorderly conduct charges. And so life settled down a little after college when I got married. But I still liked to go drinking on weekends and started getting a bit out of control with gambling and wasted most of our wedding money and usually the overtime money I made at work. Then when I was 36 years old, with a good job and pretty wife - I was still feeling like something was wrong with my life. I found myself praying a prayer I never had before: I asked God to save me from myself and take control of my life. I was sick of being in control. And if I was afraid to obey Him, please give me a desire to obey and make me love the things He loved and make me do the things He would have me do ( I was praying this way because I was nervous he might make me a missionary! Might send me to Africa. Lol) I believed I was a Christian, of course, but now I was letting Him be “Lord.” How foolish my thinking was then, as I was about to learn. A few weeks later, I heard a pastor say something i didn’t believe, and looking it up I started reading about something else:
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord,Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of my Father in heaven....and then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”

And I read things like 1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
“Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

And the Scriptures warn us to, “Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you? - unless indeed you are disqualified.” - 2nd Corinthians 13:5

And so my blind eyes began to see that I was “self deceived” and I was a mere “hypocrite.” I had never believed with a faith which was characterized by repentance. If I had died when I was 19 or a few other times in life, I would have been surprised to hear the Lord say, “depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”

Listen, please understand, many people are like I used to be: believing a sinner’s prayer offered as a child or a baptism is assurance of their salvation. No. One must be born again. It is not our doing. It is a work of God. If a person had departed from the faith - this is worrisome. It is ill advised to say, “You left the faith, but God is still faithful.” Maybe the person left the faith because, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.”
- 1 John 2:19

“You will know them by their fruits.”
We should examine the fruit of our lives - not my warning, but God’s warning. Departing from the faith is very worrisome fruit. If a person belongs to God, God will keep that person to the end. You do not maintain your own salvation - God maintains it - through faith in Christ.
 
Jul 9, 2017
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#62
When it comes to being saved nothing we do will count.. But when it comes to who will be greater in the kingdom of heaven and who will be least then yeah our works will be judged and they will count. But again not towards salvation but only to rewards in Gods perfect eternal existence.
We are saved by the grace of God through faith(Eph 2:8-9) working in love(Gal 5:6).
 
Jul 9, 2017
133
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#63
A person is born again, "born from above", when they repent of their sins and ask Christ to enter their life. Their faith in Christ makes them a new creation.
Baptism is a symbolic undertaking as one , like Christ, goes down in water as one who is dead in their sins, and then rises from the water, as one regenerated. Cleansed of their sins, they arise from the water having left the one dead in their sins behind and are now a new creation in Christ. Jesus arose from the tomb where His dead body was placed after He was crucified. Death itself did not hold Him.
That new creation that arises from the water is reborn anew. Their sins are put under the blood of Jesus and are no longer held against them by God. Their sins are forever forgiven them because they now have an emissary between themselves and God, Jesus, who took on their sins on the cross, and those of the whole world, and paid the price for all peoples sins forever.
God's gift of grace is Irrevocable. You can never lose your salvation because you are now in Christ's hands and He has vowed, no one will take you away from that security.
Even if a Christian backslides, in other words, stops doing what is right in God's eyes, even if they lose their faith, God does not lose faith in them because that Christian was reborn in Christ. That purchase, "you were bought with a price", Jesus suffered on the cross eternally secures the one that held faith in Him. Even when they're feeling the need to walk away, Jesus never will.
The parable of the prodigal son is an excellent teaching concerning this.

You rise from the Baptismal waters reborn, and free of sin. And Holy Spirit God takes up residence within you, leading you to all truth, guiding your life in the way of His righteousness.
Letting go and letting Holy Spirit God take the wheel, sort of speak, isn't instantaneous. It takes time because while we are reborn in the world of sin, we are still alive in the sinful world. It takes time to release what we held as our need to be in control of our life and to trust God in that way. However, the more we relax that need to drive our own life, the easier it is to recognize God steering the way.
1. I believe that we are reborn in Christ at Baptism.
2. i also believe that one can lose their salvation if one falls into mortal sin.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#64
1. I believe that we are reborn in Christ at Baptism.
2. i also believe that one can lose their salvation if one falls into mortal sin.
OK.
Now, please post the scripture wherein we are told after that fall you describe, God undoes all that our rebirth in Christ blessed us with. And so that we return to our former state;as one without Salvation.
Please post the full chapter link(s). While verse references are acceptable I appreciate a full chapter for the purpose of context. Thank you in advance.
 
Jul 9, 2017
133
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#65
OK.
Now, please post the scripture wherein we are told after that fall you describe, God undoes all that our rebirth in Christ blessed us with. And so that we return to our former state;as one without Salvation.
Please post the full chapter link(s). While verse references are acceptable I appreciate a full chapter for the purpose of context. Thank you in advance.
God does not turn away from us but we turn away from Him through sin. Christ is always ready to take us back if we come to Him and sincerely repent and confess our sins. Here are the verses that state that we are not assured of our salvation:
  • Mt 7:21 – not everyone saying “Lord, Lord” will inherit
  • Mt 24:13 – those who persevere to the end will be saved
  • Rom 11:22 – remain in his kindness or you will be cut off
  • Phil 2:12 – work out your salvation in fear and trembling
  • 1Cor 9:27 – drive body for fear of being disqualified
  • 1Cor 10:11-12 – those thinking they are secure may fall
  • Gal 5:4 – separated from Christ, you’ve fallen from grace
  • 2Tim 2:11-13 – must hold out to the end to reign with Christ
  • Hb 6:4-6 – describes sharers in Holy Spirit who then fall away
  • Heb 10:26-27 – if sin after receiving truth, judgment remains
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#66
These are the verses that provide us confidence in our assurance of Salvation.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Matthew 24:11-13 - And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (Read More...)

John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Hebrews 10:26-27 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Read More...)

Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 8:31-32 - Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; (Read More...)

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

Hebrews 6:4-6 - For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (Read More...)

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

1 John 5:10-13 - He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. (Read More...)

Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 John 5:11-13 - And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (Read More...)

1 John 5:13 - These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

2 Timothy 2:10-13 - Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (Read More...)

Romans 8:1 - [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:13-14 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Read More...)
Bible Verses About Assurance Of Salvation
 
Jul 9, 2017
133
9
18
#67
These are the verses that provide us confidence in our assurance of Salvation.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Matthew 24:11-13 - And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (Read More...)

John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Hebrews 10:26-27 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Read More...)

Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 8:31-32 - Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; (Read More...)

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

Hebrews 6:4-6 - For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (Read More...)

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

1 John 5:10-13 - He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. (Read More...)

Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 John 5:11-13 - And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (Read More...)

1 John 5:13 - These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

2 Timothy 2:10-13 - Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (Read More...)

Romans 8:1 - [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:13-14 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Read More...)
Bible Verses About Assurance Of Salvation
i do not doubt those verses. That is why, in the Catholic Church, "I have been saved, I am being saved, and I hope to be saved." We just think of it as a process instead of a one time event.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
936
113
62
#68
He will find the true Church that He founded, the Catholic Church. How big that Church will be is only for Him to know.
I cant find the hint in the word of god for a popedom and for several teachings of the RCC. These stands against the word of God.
How then the RCC can be called the true church?
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#69
A person is born again, "born from above", when they repent of their sins and ask Christ to enter their life. Their faith in Christ makes them a new creation.
Baptism is a symbolic undertaking as one , like Christ, goes down in water as one who is dead in their sins, and then rises from the water, as one regenerated. Cleansed of their sins, they arise from the water having left the one dead in their sins behind and are now a new creation in Christ. Jesus arose from the tomb where His dead body was placed after He was crucified. Death itself did not hold Him.
That new creation that arises from the water is reborn anew. Their sins are put under the blood of Jesus and are no longer held against them by God. Their sins are forever forgiven them because they now have an emissary between themselves and God, Jesus, who took on their sins on the cross, and those of the whole world, and paid the price for all peoples sins forever.
God's gift of grace is Irrevocable. You can never lose your salvation because you are now in Christ's hands and He has vowed, no one will take you away from that security.
Even if a Christian backslides, in other words, stops doing what is right in God's eyes, even if they lose their faith, God does not lose faith in them because that Christian was reborn in Christ. That purchase, "you were bought with a price", Jesus suffered on the cross eternally secures the one that held faith in Him. Even when they're feeling the need to walk away, Jesus never will.
The parable of the prodigal son is an excellent teaching concerning this.

You rise from the Baptismal waters reborn, and free of sin. And Holy Spirit God takes up residence within you, leading you to all truth, guiding your life in the way of His righteousness.
Letting go and letting Holy Spirit God take the wheel, sort of speak, isn't instantaneous. It takes time because while we are reborn in the world of sin, we are still alive in the sinful world. It takes time to release what we held as our need to be in control of our life and to trust God in that way. However, the more we relax that need to drive our own life, the easier it is to recognize God steering the way.
The water dosn't wash away our sins. Christ does.
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
284
158
43
#71
There seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding of Orthodoxy. This short video should give you a brief introduction to the history of Christendom.


...and yes, the Christian faith has taken hold in post-soviet Russia and is growing exponentially. Very glad to see it.
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
284
158
43
#72
Also, here are some differences between the Orthodox Church and Roman Catholicism.

Link to Article

Though there are many, three major ones are that Orthodoxy does not believe in purgatory, indulgences, or see Mary as an immaculately conceived co-redemptrix.
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
9,176
4,746
113
#73
Can I share my Testimony:
My mother is from South America, brought up Catholic. She said the church services back then spoke only in Latin. She could not understood what was said. She came to the US and married my father who left us when I and my sister were very little. Someone explained salvation through faith alone in Christ and my mother believed and for the first time saw herself as sinful and needing a Savior. During this time, as a 4 year old, I must have heard my mother’s conversations and asked our pastor about Jesus. He helped me “ask Jesus to come into my heart and cleanse me from sins.” All through my life - I relied on that experience as a 4 year old as assurance of my salvation. Knowing that my sinful life did not exclude me from heaven but maybe loss of rewards, I sinned freely and without concern. I started getting drunk with friends, experimenting with drugs as an early teenager. Stealing and breaking into cars and occasional houses with friends. Getting into trouble and being wild. I was in a fatal car accident when I was 19. My friends and I were drunk and speeding one night and flew by a cop car - we outran the cop by going 145 mph in my friends Porsche before we hit a dip in the road, lost control, and had a catastrophic crash, where the driver was ejected and died. After hearing his mother screaming at the hospital I said to myself no more drinking. But it didn’t stick, at urging of my friends, back I went to partying. I war arrested for a D.U.I charge a year later and occasionally locked up for the night for public drunkenness or disorderly conduct charges. And so life settled down a little after college when I got married. But I still liked to go drinking on weekends and started getting a bit out of control with gambling and wasted most of our wedding money and usually the overtime money I made at work. Then when I was 36 years old, with a good job and pretty wife - I was still feeling like something was wrong with my life. I found myself praying a prayer I never had before: I asked God to save me from myself and take control of my life. I was sick of being in control. And if I was afraid to obey Him, please give me a desire to obey and make me love the things He loved and make me do the things He would have me do ( I was praying this way because I was nervous he might make me a missionary! Might send me to Africa. Lol) I believed I was a Christian, of course, but now I was letting Him be “Lord.” How foolish my thinking was then, as I was about to learn. A few weeks later, I heard a pastor say something i didn’t believe, and looking it up I started reading about something else:
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord,Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of my Father in heaven....and then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”

And I read things like 1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
“Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

And the Scriptures warn us to, “Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you? - unless indeed you are disqualified.” - 2nd Corinthians 13:5

And so my blind eyes began to see that I was “self deceived” and I was a mere “hypocrite.” I had never believed with a faith which was characterized by repentance. If I had died when I was 19 or a few other times in life, I would have been surprised to hear the Lord say, “depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”

Listen, please understand, many people are like I used to be: believing a sinner’s prayer offered as a child or a baptism is assurance of their salvation. No. One must be born again. It is not our doing. It is a work of God. If a person had departed from the faith - this is worrisome. It is ill advised to say, “You left the faith, but God is still faithful.” Maybe the person left the faith because, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.”
- 1 John 2:19

“You will know them by their fruits.”
We should examine the fruit of our lives - not my warning, but God’s warning. Departing from the faith is very worrisome fruit. If a person belongs to God, God will keep that person to the end. You do not maintain your own salvation - God maintains it - through faith in Christ.
"AMEN"!!
"Thank you for sharing a powerful testimony!"
'Praise God'


- Copy - Copy - Copy (4) - Copy - Copy - Copy.jpg :)
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
284
158
43
#75
I cant find the hint in the word of god for a popedom and for several teachings of the RCC. These stands against the word of God.
How then the RCC can be called the true church?
We’re used to hearing Roman Catholic claims that it was the original church that Peter built. In fact, prior to it falling out of communion with the rest of Christendom in 1054, there was no such thing as the Roman Catholic Church. Most of what we consider to be Roman Catholic teachings (unmarried celibate priests, various aspects of their teachings about Mary, purgatory, etc) were all developed after the date of that schism.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
936
113
62
#76
We’re used to hearing Roman Catholic claims that it was the original church that Peter built. In fact, prior to it falling out of communion with the rest of Christendom in 1054, there was no such thing as the Roman Catholic Church. Most of what we consider to be Roman Catholic teachings (unmarried celibate priests, various aspects of their teachings about Mary, purgatory, etc) were all developed after the date of that schism.
And where the orthodox churches better later with there ikonism? And special in russia with the persectuion to christians which not belong to there ore the russian system?
Bye the way. A peaceful christmas! Christ has born! The saviour!
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
284
158
43
#77
And where the orthodox churches better later with there ikonism?

Icons are not idols. We are not Muslims, we are not forbidden to have pictures of family.
 
Jul 9, 2017
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#78
I cant find the hint in the word of god for a popedom and for several teachings of the RCC. These stands against the word of God.
How then the RCC can be called the true church?
Here are some verses concerning the primacy of Peter,
  • Mt 16:18 – upon this rock (Peter) I will build my church
  • Mt 16:19 – give you keys of the kingdom; power to bind & loose
  • Lk 22:32 – Peter’s faith will strengthen his brethren
  • Jn 21:17 – given Christ’s flock as chief shepherd
There are more but these will suffice for the time being. The Catholic Church is the true Church because Our Lord founded it. Now, is there proof for this? I would answer by saying, yes. If you look at the writings of the ante-Nicene(before the Council of Nicea) Fathers you will find that what they believed and practiced mirrors what the Church believes today. We also have Apostolic succession whereby Bishops can trace there lineage right back to one of the Apostles.
 
Jul 9, 2017
133
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#79
We’re used to hearing Roman Catholic claims that it was the original church that Peter built. In fact, prior to it falling out of communion with the rest of Christendom in 1054, there was no such thing as the Roman Catholic Church. Most of what we consider to be Roman Catholic teachings (unmarried celibate priests, various aspects of their teachings about Mary, purgatory, etc) were all developed after the date of that schism.
1. Yes, before the schism there was only one Church, the Catholic Church.
2. I would not say that those items, that you mentioned, were developed after the Schism. If you would like to discuss one of those items then I would be happy to do so.
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
284
158
43
#80
It was, it was... now we are the least religious nation in the world...because of a combination of a violent recatholization, communism and pentecostal preachers´ false promises after the revolution
That is a difficult history after which to preach the gospel.