James 2v21 (worth its own thread I think)

I’m justified by the faith of Jesus Christ not by my own puny faith that waivers. The faith of Christ never waivers. No amount of works justify me before God or man. Frankly, I couldn’t care less about being justified in man’s eyes. Someone can claim to be a Christian, do some good deeds and we can play judge?

James will never fit into Christian doctrine without spiritualizing the words, not taking it literally, and forcing the square peg in the round hole.

Been there done that with you. Good day

To fully understand the book of James, you need to know to whom the book was written. Are any Christians part of the twelve tribes? There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ. James is addressing the nation of Israel as a whole, not a called out group from that nation.

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

This changes none of God's truths. Who was the book of Romans written to? The church IN ROME. Doesn't mean its not applicable to us today.

When the church was birthed in the book of Acts, it comprised Jews and Gentiles. We are all one in Christ.

Romans was written to a body of believers. What applies to those believers applies to believers today.

In the Church, the body of Christ, there is no twelve tribes of Israel. James is not written to the Church but the nation of Israel as a whole, thus we must be careful when trying to apply things in James to the Church.

Faith is a work . .impossible to separate . We are saved by Christ's work of faith.

And we are justified by the faith of Christ. No amount of works justify us before God or others.

I would suggest. The Holy Spirit, not James writes to the bride of Christ the church. She is made up of what is called lively stones. lively stones make up the spiritual house as the wife of Christ.

While we look to the temporal what the eyes see in doing so we are instructed to seek after the wisdom of the Holy Spirit that indwells the believer our living hope.. We walk or understand by faith the spiritual eternal not seen.

One bride, one church, one gospel made up of stones, walls, gates .

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The bride is typified by 12 tribes as gates. This is with the tribe of Dan missing to represent those in unbelief outside of the body of Christ,. And also as part of the same description of the bride. 12 Apostles as wall or foundation with Judas missing who like Dan represent those in unbelief outside of the body of Christ.


Revelation 21:1-2 King James Version (KJV)And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21: 10-15 King James Version (KJV)And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

The word twelve according to the golden measure of faith represents the authority of God. 12 (gates) X 12 (foundation walls) = 144,000 a unknow to represent all of the redeemed saints. New testament as fortified walls, as well as old testament as gates for entering and going out. .

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

All about Israel, not the Church. You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth. This would help you see the difference between the Church and Israel.

Impossible to separate from what? From faith?

It would be so much better if you learned and utilized proper English grammar.

Sorry.

Work. . is the missing element.

Faith is a work .

As in John 6 when questioned by the disciples . It is the "work of God" working us to both will and do his good pleasure. . . not of our own selves . . . do so without murmuring. (Philippians 2:12 -13)

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent .John 6:28-29

Without parables the signified language of God, Christ spoke not. I think a person could say parables are works of faith. If we mix it in what we do see or hear, we receive the gospel rest softening our hearts. faith doing its work as a labor of love comforting and brining to our memories what he has taught us..

Faith is a work performed through an prescription, a tool given for rightly dividing the word of God.. By faith as it is written it unlocks the mysteries in parables called the hidden manna in the book of Revelation..

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

No difference. God purifies the hearts of all men in every nation by faith the unseen work of the Spirit.

Again no difference unless we do wrestle against flesh and blood and not unseen spirits of mankind in high places.

Remember God assigned meaning to His words to protect his inspired heaven authority. Not all Israel is born again Israel. She the beautiful city was renamed by God in Acts. "Christian" . A word that means residents of the city of Christ named after the founder the bride's husband, Christ.

The other Israel as un converted Jacob (not blessed) used to represent all of mankind as those who do wrestle against flesh and blood without God and do not overcome having not been born again as defined by the name Jacob .(the deceiver ) again no blessing after what the eyes see.

Genesis 32:27-29 King James Version (KJV) And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

No blessing after Jacob natural unconverted man .

The faith of Christ in going to the cross saves us yes, but only if we place our faith in his work

he is not going to force us to recieved his grace gift,

Garee, you keep referring to this statement, "Without parables, Christ spoke not". The problem is that you have taken it out of context and applied it incorrectly. Jesus plainly DID speak without parables at times. Not everything in Scripture is a parable; in fact, most things are not parables. By assuming that most things are, you have come up with a boatload of weird interpretations.

You are focusing too much on John 6:29 and ignoring verse 28, where the disciples ask, "What shall WE do, that we might work the works of God?" Jesus' response is simple: In order to do what God requires of you, believe in the One He has sent. That isn't "God working in us" without our involvement!

Your statements about faith being the tool that unlocks the Scripture is correct, but you're overlooking a very important point: you don't have some sort of faith that other Christians don't have. You have the same kind, and as such you don't have some special ability to understand the Scriptures.

Hi thanks for the reply

I am not claiming I have a different faith .Like fingerprints we hear differently. In that way there must be heresies as personal commentaries of what we think God is teaching. .He I beleive gives us the tools for rightly dividing. He would not lovingly command us to study in order to seek the approval of one not seen if he did not offer the proper tools to hear his tongue called prophecy.

There is no fleshly infallible mediator that umpires between man seen the temporal and God not seen the eternal called a daysman .

Even Jesus as the Son of man refused to stand in holy place of His unseen Father as a abomination of desolation. I offer my bread as a private interpretation as you offer yours.

The problem it would seem is you have removed parables as prophecy as you do with tongues. By assuming it is not prophecy you have literalized the hidden understandings that preaches the gospel beforehand. The reason for the ceremonial laws as shadows. The manner spoken of in 1 Peter 1:11 .A picture of our bloody husband Christ si uffering before hand. and the glory that di follow.

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1:11
the time of reformation came 2000 years ago.

That would seem to indicate no faith was mixed in and a heart would remain hard no rest from the gospel .

The fact is we can do nothing without him doing the first works. Demonstrated by the first born into this world as the Son of man. the promise from Isiah and other parables like that of Abraham and Isaac.

You could say like the parables that defines the ceremonial law of the first born. (circumcision) Moses refused to honor it by cutting the flesh his first born and Lord had mercy and sent his gentile wife Zipporah as a savior.

Zipporah is used to represent the bride of Christ, twice in two verses as two witnesses related the first born that defines circumcision to signify to our bloody husband Christ. In that way I think parables help us to walk by faith. A lesson that Jesus repeated over and over .purposely hiding the understanding giving it to a kingdom of priest.

25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.


26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.


Him working in us giving us ears to hear him not seen . Those in Revelation 2 were putting their born again new faith as the first supernatural experience of believing God called our first love. Some were having it in respect to men seen as leaders like Nicole .

The loving commandment that calls us to repent and do the first work of God that works in us causes us to believe what he says. And not put your faith in the flesh of the leaders. . . if that is the kind of gospel they are preaching. The deeds or works of the flesh of the Nicolaitans' is that which the Holy Spirit also hates as the wrong manner of spirit coming from what the eyes see and flesh feels .

Do the first works of Christ working in us. Believe God, our first love. He promises us in Hebrew 11 as to the better thing that accompanies salvation. . He will not forget the good works we offer towards him who give us power to perform them.

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revealtion2:

Yes not without our involvement. He moves, us yoked with us as Emanuel to do his will and therefore the work of us believing our invisible God. . .Just as he moved those to record his thoughts. the witness of his word represented by two. The law and the prophets. The father and the Son.

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

In the book of Job the Holy Spirit reveals . (chapter 23) Eternal God is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases for he performs that which is appointed to us as in : waht do you have that you have not received, He whose name is Jealous as a atribute
The one who owns all claims to be the spirit of power to make our hearts soft as we rest in His gospel. Sabbath . We have the power in our earthen vessels but is never us us .No man can serve two masters as a source of desire.

I would say he is our breath of life we are in need of much prayer.

Tongue means language; it doesn't mean prophecy, and it doesn't mean gospel.

Not relevant to this discussion.

Refuted many times, yet you persist in repeating your error.

I haven't removed anything; I merely recognize what sort of literature is in each part of Scripture. That has escaped you so far.

No, parables do not define any ceremonial law. Parables are short stories used to illustrate moral lessons, as spoken by Jesus. The Scripture does not even hint that "Moses refused to honor it". You're adding to Scripture.

Parables don't help us to walk by faith; they were deliberately intended to hide spiritual truth from the teeming masses who only wanted handouts and magic tricks. Jesus explained the parables to His disciples in private; a fact that also has escaped you.

The founder of the Nicolaitan error is not identified by name. Don't add to Scripture what isn't there.

All Faith is tested and greater Faith will be tested more. Abraham's Faith was genuine because Abraham's Faith and his actions were working together. Any Faith that doesn't have the Cross as its proper Object is dead Faith. The Holy Spirit had James choose this example of Abraham offering Isaac to portray one of the most vivid illustrations of the Sacrifice of Christ.

JSM

With one stroke of the pen you have made parables that make up the gospel without effect

Prophecy is language or tongue God.. By it we have the gospel. Without parable as prophecy Christ spoke not.

You have not even tried to refute it .When accused of good Master the Son of man refused to stand in the place called the "abomination of desolation" . God is not a man as us. He is not a creature standing in the Holy place of God as the source of all Christian faith. Can you get over it?

I will offer it again. . do your work of refuting. What place do you think he refused to stand in when accused as Good Master? The good candle stick maker, the master baker ? The master of fairy tales as parables .

Mark 10:17-19 King James Version (KJV)And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

You are still trying to separate parables from prophecy and tongues as prophecy . It would seem so you can literalize the signified understanding.

other than the Lord threatened to kill him .That kind of hint ?

Yes I know nice little bed time stories for children . Not the source of hidden spiritual understanding hid in prophecy as parables?
yes after hiding the meaning over and over he would at times give them the understanding sometimes and at other times he would rebuke them an reveal they know not what faithless manner of spirit they are of.

Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest. And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him, And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.(John not understanding the parable as a source of faith) And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.(still not understanding of the parable as a source of faith) And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 44-55

When a person does not understand the manner of prophecy through parables its easy to see the no faith manner. Study Luke and Mark 9 .They are great examples of parables doing there work of faith need to compare the spiritual understanding to the same. Faith to faith .The gospel

Nicolaitans a sect is named after its founder Nicole. Just as Christian is named after its founder, Christ, or Philippians after it founder.

Nicole is the name that fits the reference. The principle is not to have the faith of Christ in respect to men seen. Do the first work believe God not seen. A warning to the whole church is given to each sect, churches.

Obviously Abraham's faith was dead faith then. He knew nothing of the cross.

See verse 22... (Abraham's faith was made complete by his works).
James 2:18: show your faith by your works... works are the fruit of faith, the effect of the faith.