WHEN IS THE RAPTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GT?

THERE IS NO PRE TRIBULATION COMING OF CHRIST. HE HAS ALREADY COME AS THE LAMB OF GOD, HE IS RETURNING FOR THE DAY OF VENGEANCE.

I would like to jump in on this discussion, but I suppose the most pressing question for me is...why does it matter when exactly?

The rapture doctrines I have heard I very nearly hiss at, it's something that fills me with revulsion at times. So many "believers" have pined for it and put so much hope on one moment that they are missing out on the work that he called us to collectively.

It's one of the most warped things out there. I am not saying the Millennial Kingdom is not a thing by the way...by NO means. Simply that by certain interpretations, there is no rapture as has been popularized in Left Behind and less well known "this is the end" which was a Hollywood production, and I'm sure there are many more. Those were the only two I exposed myself to, and have the memories to provide enough of a picture of the distortions.

One thing is certain, time is short. I'm not suggesting that all here aren't focusing on the harvest...but many a person I have spoken with is distracted by this rapture doctrine...it is irrelevant.

Hello Mii,

simply, because Jesus told us to be watching and ready, because we would not know at what time He would be coming to get us. The right action is to be ready for His imminent appearing. Those who believe and teach that the church is going to go through God's wrath, are no looking for the Lord's imminent appearing, but are looking for God's wrath first. By doing so, they are not truly believing that Jesus took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves. Going through the wrath of God is not an honor. Enduring the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would have which come at the hands of men and the powers of darkness is honorable. Going through the wrath of God is not.



It's funny that you should use the words "put so much hope on one moment," because that event is called "the blessed hope."

"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age, as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

It would be no "blessed hope" and there would be no reason to comfort one another, if believers first had to go through God's wrath.



Regarding the above, you obviously have not studied the scriptures regarding this very important promise made by the Lord. It has nothing to do with Hollywood, but the truth of God's word. Those who are waiting and watching are doing what the Lord said to do. Those who looking to first go through the wrath of God, are not doing what the Lord said.



It is no distraction to be watching and ready for the Lord's appearing to gather His church, for he told us to so. As believers, we should be continuing in faith and looking for His coming. Regarding end-time events which is given in detail in the book of Revelation, there is a blessing for those who read aloud the words of that book and those who hear it and take it to heart.

The passive attitude of "when it happens it happens" is not watching for the Lord's appearing.

I think you have almost completely misunderstood me, which doesn't happen that frequently.

Think of all the people that were martyred and did not see that hope realized. Were they too pining all their hopes to be taken out of their persecution to the point of not being afforded the honor of sacrificing their lives for the sake of the gospel? Did they miss out on something that many believe we gain? Certainly not. They are afforded a very high honor indeed.

Think of Paul who was given the seed of the idea to even put in scripture that did not see it realized. Or even Daniel...it's a long topic. I'm not ignorant of the many different ways to view this. I've had dreams about the "end times" since I was a toddler and I have lived so many scenarios that all line up with scripture in some way that it is enough for me to know that I do not know and I am open to whatever occurs in sort of a JOB "though he slay me, yet will I still trust in him..." mentality. May it be so.


I am suggesting that the parable of the talents and the vineyard are clear enough that you will be held into account for what you do. Whether you are dead and take part in the 1st resurrection or the 2nd. As well as a myriad of other parables that we have had for quite a long time.

No one knows why the seven thunders were sealed, and even John knew that was definitely worth writing down..."and I was about to write..."

No one know enough about the 144,002 (two witnesses) which to me is the only thing I'm critically interested in in regard to a timetable. I envision that the body will be present with the Lord at that time (based off my reads of scripture) and ALL of the body will get to see and hear them.

I find it surprising that you gathered that I haven't read scripture and haven't been looking forward to this for the last 25 years just because I mentioned that the enemy is also moving on this doctrine to blow smoke and confusion/fantasy at the harvest. To warp thinking in this area into a hollywood fabrication.

I too watched the movie, "Left Behind." Happily besides believing every Word from the Mouth of our Makaer, I am also a scifi buff. So I viewed it as sectarian scifi.

Just as people have promoted the word, trinity, to require a capital T, so it is with the promotion of the word, Rapture.

I cannot findanywhere in Daniel or Revelation when touching on the Gretest Tribulation ever, kpeople being left behind without others who are in Jesus Christ to help as many as given to help. It seems that Great Tribulation is at our doorstep, so should I live much longer I may be quick to see, if not I will be awakened by angels translating me to Jesus, Yeshua, on the clouds...….God bless all who believe our Savior, and those who will, amen.

I think you have almost completely misunderstood me, which doesn't happen that frequently.

Think of all the people that were martyred and did not see that hope realized. Were they too pining all their hopes to be taken out of their persecution to the point of not being afforded the honor of sacrificing their lives for the sake of the gospel? Did they miss out on something that many believe we gain? Certainly not. They are afforded a very high honor indeed.

Think of Paul who was given the seed of the idea to even put in scripture that did not see it realized.

I am suggesting that the parable of the talents and the vineyard are clear enough that you will be held into account for what you do. Whether you are dead and take part in the 1st resurrection or the 2nd. As well as a myriad of other parables that we have had for quite a long time.

No one knows why the seven thunders were sealed, and even John knew that was definitely worth writing down..."and I was about to write..."

No one know enough about the 144,002 (two witnesses) which to me is the only thing I'm critically interested in in regard to a timetable. I envision that the body will be present with the Lord at that time (based off my reads of scripture) and ALL of the body will get to see and hear them.

I find it surprising that you gathered that I haven't read scripture and haven't been looking forward to this for the last 25 years just because I mentioned that the enemy is also moving on this doctrine to blow smoke and confusion/fantasy at the harvest. To warp thinking in this area into a hollywood fabrication.

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Zechariah 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.


Once again, not only what is said, but of course no pre trib trip to earth mentioned

5 foolish virgins (saints) left behind.50%
"One taken,one left" mat 24...50% "left behind"
Noah's in laws left behind
Lot's inlaws left behind

There is no protection of saints during the gt.
The ac is comissioned to kill the saints. Even the remnant Jews are hunted down by the devil and barely escape the power given satan during the gt.
Post trib rapture is preposterous.

You cant see "left behind"

You framed your observation of end times discussion in "revultion and hissing"
Then claim the Lord has steered you away from end times discussion.

Your view is basically anti pretrib.

Your eyes are off Jesus return,and on the 144k and 2 witnesses.

Now you claim Jesus directed you there?
(To avoid watching and waiting)?

The ac appears way before the 2 witnesses.
Why not focus there?

No man knows the day nor the hour is pretty clear.

HE IS RETURNING FOR THE DAY OF VENGEANCE.

I would like to jump in on this discussion, but I suppose the most pressing question for me is...why does it matter when exactly?

Definitely he won't miss his own wedding, that much I do know

Why does it matter? Because God hates false doctrine and the first ones God is going to judge is those who are teaching or claiming to teach His Word. And we are not only responsible for our own sins, but when you teach a false doctrine, you are held responsible for all those you teach. That is HUGE. It is a BIG Fat hairy deal and people are going at it like it doesn't matter that much because they aren't standing in front of God this second. Yet they should be thinking along those lines because THEY WILL BE, and God is really really clear on where He stands on the issue of false doctrine. Not to mention all those who can be deceived into believing it now (pre trib fly away) will be deceived by whatever Satan has to say in just a little while. Also when you believe in pre trib, the knowledge you REALLY need to possess to get through it without taking the mark is lost so you realize it is Satan but you haven't prepared your life for his arrival.

Pre trib has people who believe the "church" and the "saints or Israel" are 2 separate "entities". They believe the "church" is made up of the gentiles and the saints are of Israel, as insane as that sounds. Many don't even know the House of Judah was separated from the House of Israel thousands of years ago. When you mention that Gods people are to be as the dust of the earth, they still can't see that "belief" in Christ comes especially to those scattered sheep before everyone else.

You can point out that Paul, without any swerving states "the apostasy comes first', before the man of sin revealed and they just sweep over it. You can mention that JESUS, HIMSELF NEVER ONCE MENTIONED IT. You can state where the churches are told to overcome, to endure to the end but not even that opens eyes. You can even mention the church where it is stated that some of them willr be given up to the devil for a ten day trial. Still nothing. You can mention the 7th trump and even that gets not so miracoulsly "changed". You can tell them where the words "a second" time is writtten, NEVER A THIRD. You can mention place after place after place where all mention of it "would have been" that it ISN'T, and you still get them finding the verses that are arbitrary at best, to "back it up".

Why does it matter? Because God wants ALL his children to make it. Because there is a war going on for "souls" and the loss of just one is too many. Like the shepherd who with 100 sheep leaves the 99 to go find the one. EVERY single soul is of the utmost importance.


BUT MOST important is the four winds are being held UNTIL THE SEALING IS COMPLETED. So any of those who have been deceived have got to become UNDECEIVED AND to have the truth SEALED in their foreheads before we can move forward and quite frankly I am ready.


Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Anyway, that's why I think it matters.

So, you think "the day of vengeance" consists of "a singular 24-hr day" ?