Not By Works

You lose the justification that your trust and belief secured.

You can't have the benefit of a sacrifice that is applied to you through your believing if you no longer have the believing that applied to you.

And they said Master you mother and brother are here and He replies who is my mother And my brother?? Those who do the Will of My Father when you spend time with Him you will understand that no He don’t leave us we turn our back on Him when we live in sin we turn our back on Him
What is the Will of Our Father
I will b their God and they will be my People if they Obey the words coming out of My Mouth
Know is it the obedience that saves us nope it’s not it the faith that we have which we received the grace of the Holy One dwelling inside us
Many find this complicated idk I find it quite simple to follow
For my Word is so easy a Child can understand it
Simple any man who says they know Me yet Abides is sin is a Liar and the truth is not in him
He is they way the truth and the Light and anyone who Follows Him will have eternal life
Why would you not wanna give up what you have to to follow Him after he was beaten spat kicked mocked punch and whipped for you??

We have free will me personally I rather Abide In Him know that does not mean we r sinless for all disobedience is sin yet there is sin that will cause you death and sin that don’t but we grow say idk someone is stuck like lying say they lie all day everyday then he or she grows closer to the Lord and soon only lies three time a day they r growing it’s the growth I believe but to say you know The Lord and not have no change then how have you even repented repent is a change of heart which leads to change of mind which does lead to the change of our ways

Yes, but the 'trust and belief' must continue in order for the result to continue.

1 John 2:24 KJV
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

The condition for continuing in the Son, and in the Father is that the gospel you heard in the beginning remain in you. Paul says the same thing here.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

That's not a works gospel as some claim. The condition for salvation is not works. The condition is that you receive and retain the gospel message in a continuing faith.



No argument about that. The moment you trust in Christ, your faith (your believing) is credited to you as righteousness.



Turning from sin is part of the good news about Jesus. It's just that repentance does not earn justification. But it definitely is a necessary part of the the gospel message.

Acts 2:37-38 KJV
what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:19 KJV
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out

Just because repentance itself is not what secures a justification of righteousness that doesn't mean it's not an integral and necessary part of the gospel. You will not be saved if you do not change your mind about Christ and your sin. The person who hasn't changed his mind about sin ends up being the fake believer that gets talked about so frequently in threads like this. He wants the free gift but he doesn't want to renounce his sin. He thinks he can have the free gift without a change of mind about his sin. Won't happen.



The prerequisite to being persuaded that you can save yourself is an honest acknowledgment of your sin and your guilt. Hatred of your sin and your slavery to it is the foundation to then realizing you need Christ and Christ alone to rescue you from it. So turning from sin is definitely an integral part of the gospel. It's just that repentance itself is not what secures justification. But you must have a repentant attitude to be justified. That's not works.



That's how it works.



He'll do everything he can to keep you from falling away from your belief in justification through Christ, but ultimately that's your decision. That's not you working for your justification. That's you wanting the free gift of justification or not. You can't cast it away in unbelief and still have it. I showed you above that you have to continue in the word of the gospel in faith in order to remain in the Son and the Father.

Even if you want to argue the old Calvinist argument that only truly born again people retain what they heard in the beginning in faith, that still means you have to continue in what you heard in the beginning to be saved. You can't separate salvation and a continued belief in Christ like so many are claiming you can do. You have to keep trusting in Christ to be saved.

Read carefully what he's saying.
All believers sin, but that doesn't have to mean they have stopped believing in Christ. But when their sin does mean they have stopped believing in Christ that's a whole 'nuther matter.

The person who has stopped believing has no choice but to go back to the slavery of his sin. He has fallen away from Christ. That is different than the person who sins but is still trusting in Christ for salvation. They aren't 'living in' sin. They haven't fallen away from Christ.

I guess you could say the reason the 'believer' is sinning determines if the free gift of salvation is still valid for them. Sinning because you have cast away the free gift of justification in unbelief will cause you to not have that free gift anymore. You can't have the free gift that you no longer believe and trust in. You can't have the benefit of a sacrifice you do not have anymore because you do not trust in it anymore.

The problem is so many think the scriptures about falling away from faith in Jesus' sacrifice doesn't mean you lose the gift of justification that sacrifice gives you.

People used to think that if you fell away from faith in Christ it meant you were never in him to begin with. Now falling away in unbelief means you only lose his active presence and power in your life.

What happens if your, 'trust and belief' does not continue?

(I know you have just explained, but just to reiterate so there can be no misunderstanding. Thanks.)

Yes, the saved person is saved for eternity. That's not the issue. The issue is, you have to keep believing in Christ to have the benefit of his sacrifice which never stops interceding for you in heaven. Under the old covenant the sacrifice did stop interceding for you and whatever life it secured for you came to end and you had to make repeated sacrifices because the one before it got used up.

Eternal life doesn't mean you can't lose it even if you stop believing in Christ. It means the life giving effect of the sacrifice of Jesus never ends like it did for the sacrifices under the old covenant. That's why we should not throw away the confidence we have in the sacrifice of Jesus that never stops giving life. Don't throw away the sacrifice that keeps on giving, forever.

Even when we are faithless he is faithful

how much faith did jesus say could move a mountain,

you know how small a mustard seed is?

you either have faith

or your an antichrist with no faith

period.

john said they never knew us

end of story according to scripture,

Either you are unaware, or are ignoring the scriptures that warn against falling away from Jesus.

It would seem you 're woefully unaware that it impossible to for Jesus to loose one of His own.

I am completely dismayed daily by those that come to this thread and promote that Christ Jesus is an incompetent Saviour.

It would seem you 're woefully unaware that it impossible to for Jesus to loose one of His own.

I am completely dismayed daily by those that come to this thread and promote that Christ Jesus is an incompetent Saviour.

You have it the wrong way round. It is not the fault of Jesus that that some sheep are lost, rather it is the fault of the sheep who think the grass in the other field is greener, so they leave the Good Shepherd and wander astray into another field.

If we do that, and "take words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life" (Rev 22:19)
By disregarding some scriptures, you are doing what you should not be doing.

Thank you.
Would you say this scripture tells us we are always saved in all circumstances?

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

IF THEY ONLY TASTED TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, AND THE GOODNESS OF THE WORD OF GOD, they were NEVER BORN AGAIN.
BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS, WE CONSUMED that HEAVENLY GIFT, and the HOLY SPIRIT CAME IN TO OUR HEARTS, and HUNGER AND THIRST FOR THE WORD CONTINUES. I COULD NOT GET ENOUGH when I was Saved the LAST WEEK of 1977, and it continues today.

SO THIS VERSE REMAINS ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ABSOLUTE TRUE.


1 John 2:19-20 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you have knowledge. [.WE ABSOLUTELY KNOW HIM, NOT JUST TASTED.]

You have it the wrong way round. It is not the fault of Jesus that that some sheep are lost, rather it is the fault of the sheep who think the grass in the other field is greener, so they leave the Good Shepherd and wander astray into another field.

If we do that, and "take words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life" (Rev 22:19)
By disregarding some scriptures, you are doing what you should not be doing.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

1 John 2:24 - See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

Not sure why the words forever. Eternal. Not neither, nor seem to give people a hard time.

If A person who sins have NEVER seen or known God. And a child of God DOES NOT sin (live in or habitual) then how can a child of God sin themselves out of salvation?

Show me scriptures that say those who turn away from the Lord are still saved.

(Dog walk time.)

Jesus describes himself as the good Shepherd in John 10:11. In Psalm 23:1 David says , " The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want." Sheep will wander. Jesus as the Good Shepherd is diligent to keep his flock( his people).

For me, I have felt the need for Jesus to be my Good Shepherd, one who would guide me in the right way and seek me when I go astray and keep me secure eternally, and always love me and be there for me.