WHEN IS THE RAPTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GT?

How do you distinguish between them?

So what I gather is the "church" is gentiles grafted into, while the descendants are kicked out. The church gets free pass, the descents get tribulation.

Failure to rightly divide the Church and Israel once again. You do realize the NT Church which began with the resurrection is the bride of Jesus Christ. The nation of Israel is God the Father’s bride of the OT? You keep making them the same thing.

What are the requirements to be in the CHURCH OF TODAY? Where is that found in Gods Word? Who doesn't meet the requirements of the Church today? What happens to them and where is that found in Gods Word?

Maybe instead of telling me my failures, in your eyes, don't you just give me scripture?

“When I passed by you again and saw you, behold, you were at the age for love, and I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your nakedness; I made my vow to you and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Lord God, and you became mine.

This is where GOD MARRIED THE LAND, the location, the terrafirma, the favorite place of God in the whole universe. The LAND became His wife. THE BRIDE, is the new city that comes down from heaven. ( And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband) (And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God),


Ezekiel 16:1 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Ezekiel 16:2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

Ezekiel 16:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.

Ezekiel 16:4 And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.

Ezekiel 16:5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.

Ezekiel 16:6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.

Ezekiel 16:7 I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.

Ezekiel 16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.

Ezekiel 16:9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.

Ezekiel 16:10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

Ezekiel 16:11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.

Ezekiel 16:12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

Ezekiel 16:13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.

Ezekiel 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 16:15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by, his it was.

Ezekiel 16:16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.

Ezekiel 16:17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

Ezekiel 16:18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.

What I think you are doing here ^ is "identifying" the Olive Tree AS (something like): "salvation" or "Jesus" or the like...

Consider the following posts I've made in the past:

[quoting those old posts]

I'm looking for a different quote by George V Wigram... but (in the meantime) in its place, I'll just post this brief portion also by him (note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):

[quoting GV Wigram]

"Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples (gamnzim, pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.

"Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."

[also]

"f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."

--George V Wigram

http://bibletruthpublishers.com/heb...t-testimony-psalms-article/g-v-wigram/la61041

____________

[quoting that other article by GV Wigram]

"[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."

-- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram

http://bibletruthpublishers.com/tho...the-church/present-testimony-volume-4/la85282

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]

[end quoting those old posts]

Hope that helps.


["the olive tree" is not "salvation" or "Jesus" b/c of what v.22c says]

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Are you saying that THE COVENANT HE WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL, is not the NEW COVENANT THAT JESUS brought?

EXAMPLE I am a descendant of the House of Israel. My friend is not.

We both go to a church, are introduced to the WORD of GOD.

We are both baptized.

Are you saying that because of my lineage, I have not become a "member of the church, body of Christ" yet she has?



1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body so also is Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

1 Corinthians 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

1 Corinthians 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

1 Corinthians 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

1 Corinthians 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

1 Corinthians 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

1 Corinthians 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

1 Corinthians 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

1 Corinthians 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

1 Corinthians 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

1 Corinthians 12:24 For our comely parts have no need but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

1 Corinthians 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

1 Corinthians 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

^ Perhaps what I'd put (over in a different thread, today) will help somewhat:

https://christianchat.com/threads/which-gospel.188731/post-4089258 [ * there's a bit more to that section that I didn't put in that post... perhaps I can come back and add it later, if needed]


Also, Hebrews 7:22 states: "By so much also, Jesus has become the guarantee [/a surety] of a better covenant."

^ EDIT to add it now, so it's in close proximity to the rest ^ (at link), lol

[quoting the rest of that (old posts in the context of a different convo, mind you), not shown at link... and this is where the "amil-teachings" are AMISS...]

...there are TWO "raise" senses spoken of in Acts 3... v.15 speaking of His being "raised from the dead," but the other being "raised" to a position of prominence BEFORE His death (that is, to the position of 'a Prophet like unto Moses'...'raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me [/Moses]; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you' and 'UNTO YOU FIRST God, having raised up [to a position of prominence BEFORE His death] His Servant Jesus, SENT him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities'). The "ALL things which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets" (meaning, OT prophecies) have not yet been fully fulfilled, but remain for a yet-future time (and I believe Joel is one such prophecy).


note: the word "King" is only used [re: Jesus] TWO times in all of the epistles, and both of them are "future" [see Rev19:15b still speaking in "future tense"], 1Tim6:15 being one of those, says, "which IN HIS TIMES He SHALL SHEW [openly manifest], who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" [<--this latter phrase found only elsewhere in Rev19 and in the reverse order in Rev17]

[end quoting my old post excerpts]

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin

If Israelites are not a part of the church, what was Paul doing starting them?

[aside from the fact that "water baptism" is not "salvation" (IF you mean that)…]

...then you are here talking about "the Church which is His body" [see Eph1:20-23 WHEN]

"The Church which is His body" wherein there is NO DISTINCTION in our standing before God IN CHRIST [sure you retain your lineage, just like we retain "male" and "female," but I refer here to "our standing before God IN CHRIST"]; so yes, if each of you have trusted in Christ and His finished work, for salvation, you are both in "the Church which is His body" (the "ONE BODY" with Christ as "HEAD"). That goes for ALL who are "saved" in this present age [see again Eph1:20-23 WHEN; but recall... Eph1:10 (the "time-period" referred to in that verse) is not speaking of "in this present age [singular]" but awaits the MK era (at some point THERE)]



Anyone (in this present age [singular]; Eph1:20-23 WHEN), Jew OR Gentile, who trusts in Christ and His finished work, for salvation, IS SAVED and is a MEMBER of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (wherein there is NO DISTINCTION, in our standing before God IN CHRIST).

^ but this is not speaking of those who will come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture [/THE Departure]"; as there will be many who come to faith THEN (yes, both Jews/Israel AND Gentiles... and these are then kept/shown to be kept distinct, in such passages regarding this; never are they referred to as "the Church which is His body" [which will have already been "caught UP/AWAY" to "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"])

(note: "the Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" [ALL those "saved" in this present age [singular]; Eph1:20-23 WHEN]; NOT to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints [Dan12:13, etc], not to Trib saints [Rev20:4b]; not to MK saints)

I can try to put something together... probably to post way later tonight... (though I *have* posted abundantly on this topic in the past, I'm horrible at doing "SEARCHes" and the volume of it would be overwhelming, lol... I'll try to put something "condensed" later tonight)

Good day DeighAnn,

The following is what happens once the dead in Christ are resurrected and the living church is changed and caught up:

"My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

In the scripture above Jesus says that He is going to the Father's house to prepare places for the disciples and all believer's and that He is going to come back to get us and take us to those places that He prepared in the Father's house so that we can be with Him where He is. This will take place before the first seal is opened which initiates God's wrath and which will continue right up until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

Once we are there in heaven, one of the things that will take place is that we will all stand before the Bema seat of Christ and will be judged, not for our sins, which have already been forgiven, but to receive reward or loss of reward, for what we did in the body whether good or worthless. (2 Corinthians 5:10)

Another event which will take place while we are there, will be the wedding of the Lamb, where according to Rev.19:6-8 we will receive our fine linen, white and clean which represent our righteous acts.

After that, we will follow the Lord out of heaven to the earth wearing our fine linen and riding on white horses, to engage the nations at Armageddon.

"They (the beast and the ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

There are three types of people in the Bible. Those that are in the Church are people who have trusted the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sin. They make up the body of Christ, the Church.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

If neither the Jew or Gentile are the church, who is?

There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ. When a Jew or Gentile believes the gospel of Christ they are no longer a Jew or Gentile, but a part of the body of Christ, which is the Church.

But the Jews are descendants of the 12 tribes. I thought they were separate. Does that mean that the House of Israel, those who have accepted Christ, are also part of the Church?