WHEN IS THE RAPTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GT?

Who is the church?

Believers in Christ, His body. Israel is not His Church, for in Him, there is no Jew or Gentile. His Church began after His resurrection, not one moment before.

When you say Israel, who do you mean?

How can a marriage take place with the church if the saints are left on the earth to endure until the end? Do they not get to be part of the marriage?

2 witness, 144, 7000 elect etc.

Yes.

The Church (which is His body) will be completed when the rapture occurs, when the full number of Gentiles has come in.

Right on! That is exactly what I was going to point out.

It is amazing how much we have in common when it comes to doctrine. We are identical

Could it be: Same Spirit, same method of interpretation?

The two witnesses and 144,000 male Jews are not part of the Church. OT saints were not in Christ, His Church. No saint after the tribulation is part of the Church.

The Church does not have to endure to the end. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Our salvation is secure. Matthew 24 is concerning the Jews in the tribulation, not the Church.

Rightly divide Israel and the Church. You keep applying Jewish passages to the Church.

All the physical descendents of the nation of Israel, the twelve tribes of Jacob.

Hello DeighAnn,

Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." Emphasis on "I will build" which is future, indicative, active, meaning that it had not previously been built.

Beginning with the apostles up to this very moment, the church has been in the process of being built. Once it is completed, the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and call up His church. All believer's leading up to that time make up the church.

Once that event takes place, that will be the end of the church on earth. Those on the earth after that, including the nation Israel, the great tribulation saints and the 144,000 do not fall under the title of church. They are other saved groups.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/4-12.htm There is no other salvation...

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God


Do I hear you correctly, The scattered house of Israel, whom Jesus specifically came for, and whom He has lost not one of, and started sending out the Apostles for two by two, and Paul starting all those churches in the name of Jesus Christ, are not part of the church of today, they are all considered the "nation" of Israel? And as such, are not a part of the "pre trib rap"? Are any of the House of Israel "sealed" by the Holy Spirit? Do you consider the tribe of Judah and Matthew 24, to apply to the 10 Northern tribes that had been scattered years before? Jesus did not say he came for the House of Judah, but the House of Israel, correct? That stick remains broken, correct?

Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

It's a 12 in the body or out,,,debate?

Yes, you did no read correctly. I was answering, who is Israel. The Church is not Israel.

Agreed. Failing to distinguish these (as they are to be distinguished) takes one into the resultant confusion.

You say the church is not Israel, and Israel is the descendants of the 12 tribes.

If, you think of yourself as a "gentile" YET, two thousand years ago your lineage actually came from 2 people who were of the tribe of say, Dan, scattered throughout the world, to bring the word of God to the world. You are not a gentile, and God knows it. You, just don't know it. Now, are you are not of the church, in Gods eyes, you are a descendant of Israel. What happens to you then?

Isaiah For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
Is the " YOUR" only speaking to "the church"?

Ephesians So that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
Does this describe the churches today?

Mark And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in that day.
Jesus came to the scattered sheep, Jesus said this. Where does Jesus go on to say those descended from Israel are not to be a part of the church the gentiles are grafted into?

John Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Who is this speaking to, and who is speaking it?





Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

^ DA, first off (re: your overall questions there ^ ), consider what I have just put over in a different thread:

https://christianchat.com/threads/which-gospel.188731/post-4089169

Secondly, consider what I said (I think earlier in this thread), that Ephesians 1:10 [the "time-period" mentioned there] is not speaking of "in this present age [singular]" (i.e. NOW / presently) as the rest of the Ephesians epistle IS referring to.

How did you come to that "time period" for that and not the rest?