SHOULD WE CHECK OUR DENOMINATIONS FOR TRUTH?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#41
What they decided about bible interpretation is the subject I am referring to, I don't think the name of the councils makes any difference.
Only the Catholic and Orthodox churches pay attention to what happened in these councils. So you need not concern yourself with that, but you have bigger issues. If those churches were wrong so is your idea of reverting back to the Old Covenant when it suits you.

Just think of the power it would gain if we accepted the simple truths given in the feasts, as just one small example.
You mentioned observing the feasts of Israel. Well without the temple, the Levitical priesthood, the temple sacrifices, and all the trappings of the Old Covenant, observing those feasts would be a TOTAL SHAM. And several of those feasts have already seen their fulfillment. Once something is fulfilled, it must not be revived.

So what you are telling Christians is to focus on the types and shadows in spite of the fact that Christ is the reality who fulfilled the Law. Which makes you an enemy of God and Christ.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#42
Only the Catholic and Orthodox churches pay attention to what happened in these councils. So you need not concern yourself with that, but you have bigger issues. If those churches were wrong so is your idea of reverting back to the Old Covenant when it suits you.


You mentioned observing the feasts of Israel. Well without the temple, the Levitical priesthood, the temple sacrifices, and all the trappings of the Old Covenant, observing those feasts would be a TOTAL SHAM. And several of those feasts have already seen their fulfillment. Once something is fulfilled, it must not be revived.

So what you are telling Christians is to focus on the types and shadows in spite of the fact that Christ is the reality who fulfilled the Law. Which makes you an enemy of God and Christ.
Does scripture tell us the feasts are trappings of the Old Covenant? Does scripture say that the covenant it is speaking of is cancelled or doesn't it say it is speaking of what is obsolete. The feasts are celebrations of our Salvation through Christ every one. If we are not to celebrate Christ why are you celebrating Easter and Christmas? If we are not to celebrate what has happened as you intimate, we should not celebrate our salvation. Where is the scripture telling us not to use these celebrations as praises of God in our holidays as the feasts are? There is plenty scripture telling us to do always celebrate them, for all our generations. The feasts are given to us by the Lord, man gives us the celebrations we use. What would you choose, man's way or God's way? There is no scripture for any of our holidays, they are not in scripture. The words Easter, Christmas, Halloween, Fools Day, or May Day are not in scripture. The word Easter is but it is a misinterpretation of the word Passover. There is scripture for the feasts, they are ordered by the Lord for our benefit.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#43
Once something is fulfilled, it must not be revived.
What about them animal sacrifices? They were fulfilled, WHY are they coming back in the millennium? If I recall you was of that view!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#44
Only the Catholic and Orthodox churches pay attention to what happened in these councils. .
If it was so that the doctrines of our church never originated in these councils there would be not need to study them. But if you track any doctrine to its beginnings, you will find that they began in these councils and they were usually not decided on as a way to follow the Lord. As an example, it was decided in an early council that the book of Enoch was not to be included in scripture, and that decision was based on that it was too Jewish and that they didn't understand it. As we decide on any policy of the church, I think that decision must be based on determining what God wants, nothing else.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#45
What about them animal sacrifices? They were fulfilled, WHY are they coming back in the millennium? If I recall you was of that view!
I am speaking of following scripture! What does scripture say about animal sacrifice, for goodness sakes. In Hebrews it also tells us of what is obsolete, and didn't Christ make animal sacrifice obsolete?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,285
113
#47


Romans 13:10 and 14 :)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#48
I am speaking of following scripture! What does scripture say about animal sacrifice, for goodness sakes. In Hebrews it also tells us of what is obsolete, and didn't Christ make animal sacrifice obsolete?
In Hebrews it tells us that the first covenant is obsolete... the whole thing.

Heb 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#49
What about them animal sacrifices? They were fulfilled, WHY are they coming back in the millennium? If I recall you was of that view!
You would have to ask God and Christ the answer to that question. No man can adequately explain this anomaly.

But the regeneration of believing Israel is clearly presented in Ezekiel.
EZEKIEL 36
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.


All we can do is study the Scriptures and believe that what is revealed is true, no matter how difficult the issue might be. We know for a fact that during the Church Age, the only sacrifice that matters to God is the one great sacrifice for sins for ever which was made by the Lamb of God (Christ). The book of Hebrews makes it perfectly clear that the types and shadows of the Old Covenant have been replaced by the reality of Christ.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#51
In Hebrews it tells us that the first covenant is obsolete... the whole thing.

Heb 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
In Hebrew it does NOT tell us that all the covenants are dissolved, or in your word "the whole thing". It tells us the old covenant is obsolete. It is not obsolete, all that God spoke to us, that is to deny God. God tells us that we receive the Holy Spirit, all of us, as His way of communicating with us, it is obsolete that God communicates through physical acts such as fleshly circumcision. That is obsolete. As an example. God did not take back and cancel anything of God as "the whole thing" implies. God is eternal, His words are eternal.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#52
To answer the OP question, absolutely.
Denomination:NOUN
  1. a recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church.
‘the Presbyterian community is the second largest denomination in the country’

...
Origin
Late Middle English (in denomination (sense 3)): from Latin denominatio(n-), from the verb denominare (see denominate). denomination (sense 1) dates from the mid 17th century.


What Denomination was Christ? He was a Jew that fulfilled the prophecies in the Torah's Tanakh. https://themosthighgod.com/messiah-in-tanakh/
Do Messianic Jews practice rightly? Some say no.
How about we just consider that Jews today don't accept Jesus was Messiah. Interestingly enough though they do not teach one book of the Torah during temple; The Book of Isaiah chapter 53.

And we know the conflict that arises between Denominations. Every one has its own version of Jesus.

What about just reading what God sent to us and -let the Holy Spirit lead us. Is there a Holy Spirit Denomination? No, but there is a Holy Spirit temple; you!
The Book of John chapter 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#53
In Hebrew it does NOT tell us that all the covenants are dissolved, or in your word "the whole thing".
I didn't use the words "all the covenants" and I did not use the word "dissolved". Once again, do not waste your time with paraphrasing my words, because you always get it wrong.

It tells us the old covenant is obsolete. It is not obsolete, all that God spoke to us, that is to deny God. God tells us that we receive the Holy Spirit, all of us, as His way of communicating with us, it is obsolete that God communicates through physical acts such as fleshly circumcision. That is obsolete. As an example. God did not take back and cancel anything of God as "the whole thing" implies. God is eternal, His words are eternal.
Which part of the old covenant is not obsolete, when the word clearly tells us that it is obsolete? You are attempting a fallacy of equivocation, and it is not valid.

The whole old covenant is obsolete. Stop fighting it.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
#54
SHOULD WE CHECK OUR DENOMINATIONS FOR TRUTH?

We know many of our churches today are not giving us truth because there is only one truth, yet many differences in our church’s teaching.

In my search for the true church, I went back to the beginning of our church denominations. There is very little information about the denomination Christ set up except it was called The Way. It only lasted about 500 years. I found only one document about it outside of scripture, it was a report given to Rome by a man sent to research it for an Emperor. The reporter said that members cared and supported each other and he found no fault in it.

The next information on our church’s history was also a history of Constantine. Much of what Constantine wrote is preserved so we can know about this man. He was not a Christian for he had his wife killed and had coins printed of his God who was the sun. Yet, with politics in mind he established our church of today. His goal was to unify the Christian church, make it the state religion, and to do that he felt it needed to exclude any Jewish ideas, he calling Jews demons. Christians are told not to do this.

Every year after this council met in about 325 that set up the church there was a council of the Catholic church under the pope. The decisions of these councils are still felt today and each one was in opposition of the ways of the Jews. The Jews did not recognize the new covenant so many things the Jews practiced are not following God’s plan for us. But this opposition to the Jews means they threw out much of God’s instruction. All our holidays that Jews practiced were tossed and secular holidays replaced them, with a twist to them to make them sound Christian. Fleshly circumcision and diet restrictions was tossed, and these fleshly instructions were rightly tossed. Prayers the Jews had that had been God inspired were all tossed. The idea of scripture all being in agreement was tossed. The people who God used to explain His principles lived so many centuries ago, with different understandings and language so it is hard to understand God principles in the OT. God hid ancient writings that bridge that gap in the deep-sea scrolls, and our scholars are digging this information out. It has resulted in some changes in today’s church, now it listens closer to scripture as the OT gives us God principles.

Just as in Christ’s day, Christ was not accepted by many, today much of the idea of listening to OT scripture is not accepted. I think that should change. When we read in the NT of God using water to teach us, we need to go to the OT to understand this use of water. God said we were to always, forever, honor Passover and we tossed it, I think in error. As examples. We need a better understanding of the new covenant, OT scripture must agree with it.
Yes, we must check our denominations for truth.

I Corinthians 14:29
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

Prophets are God's messengers -- they must preach what God tells them to preach at a certain moment. My denomination was like that long ago, but today it seems to be operating in automatic mode. There are still a few preachers who are Spirit led and I do my best to attend their sermons.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#55
I didn't use the words "all the covenants" and I did not use the word "dissolved". Once again, do not waste your time with paraphrasing my words, because you always get it wrong.


Which part of the old covenant is not obsolete, when the word clearly tells us that it is obsolete? You are attempting a fallacy of equivocation, and it is not valid.

The whole old covenant is obsolete. Stop fighting it.
God is perfect and holy we are not to discard any of God, even what God replaced so the old is obsolete. We are not to use the replacements God made for us, the fulfillment of OT symbolism, as an excuse to discard what is not replaced.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#56
God is perfect and holy we are not to discard any of God, even what God replaced so the old is obsolete. We are not to use the replacements God made for us, the fulfillment of OT symbolism, as an excuse to discard what is not replaced.
Once again, in English this time?

You conflate recognizing that the old covenant is obsolete with discarding part of God? Um, no.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#57
Once again, in English this time?

You conflate recognizing that the old covenant is obsolete with discarding part of God? Um, no.
So discarding what is given by God has nothing to do with discarding God? I don't think so. All God tells us in holy, including that we now have the blood of Christ and should use that and not the symbolic blood of animals. We have the Holy Spirit and should use that instead of diet and fleshly circumcision to guide us to truth. Scripture tells us to learn from ALL of it.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#58
That is not what scripture tells us. Scripture speaks often about hearing the word. Even the Lord's Prayer speaks of this, daily we ask for our daily bread. That bread is not only food, it is the words of the Lord.

It is a shame that Christians who ask Christ to come into their hearts do not want to follow Him in living in such a way that is most pleasing to the Lord as Christ did. You would think, if they accept Christ as their savior and accept His righteousness that their life would center around learning all about their God. Instead they spend their time patting themselves on the back, saying they have all the truth even though they are human who do not have truth within them, it is truth through Christ.
Only his sheep hear his voice and they already have eternal security.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#59
So discarding what is given by God has nothing to do with discarding God? I don't think so. All God tells us in holy, including that we now have the blood of Christ and should use that and not the symbolic blood of animals. We have the Holy Spirit and should use that instead of diet and fleshly circumcision to guide us to truth. Scripture tells us to learn from ALL of it.
Again, "discarding" is your word, not mine. If you don't understand the difference between obsolete and discarded then I recommend you spend some quiet time with Merriam and Webster.

Yes, all of Scripture teaches us. The Law teaches us how God dealt with Israel, and how He wanted them to interact with Him. It also tells of how Israel would fail to follow the Law, and what the consequences would be. Those consequences are described in all their gory detail in the history books. They are a lesson to us as to how God is actually serious about sin, and how serious He was about bringing His solution for sin. That solution is Jesus Christ. He initiated a NEW covenant, which makes the old covenant obsolete. Why do you want to live by what is obsolete instead of what Christ has won for you?