I hate eternal hell
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You may be called a heretic for refusing to accept the traditions and dogma of men, but if you look at the definition of the word "heretic" you may notice that it does not equate to blasphemy, nor is it a salvation issue.
Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.
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"Hell" is a mistranslation, and Paul never once mentioned it while claiming to have given us the whole counsel of God in Acts 20:27~ I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 “He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among those who have believed.”
Galatians 6:8 says, “The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” Philippians 1:28 and 3:19 teach that non-Christians will be destroyed. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 says, “They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” One of the best known and most well loved Scripture attests to the unsaved perishing, as do a plethora of others.
The ungodly will be destroyed, but Christians will be given eternal life. Claiming destroy and perish mean something other than being utterly destroyed or perishing completely is a choice many make. They refuse to take words at face value while reprimanding others for not taking words at face value... which is rather blatantly hypocritical, don't you think? Some will even claim that the soul of man is already immortal which goes completely against what Scripture explicitly states, and there are those too who claim that anything God does lasts forever, which also goes against the clear teaching of Scripture.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 “He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among those who have believed.”
Galatians 6:8 says, “The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” Philippians 1:28 and 3:19 teach that non-Christians will be destroyed. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 says, “They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” One of the best known and most well loved Scripture attests to the unsaved perishing, as do a plethora of others.
The ungodly will be destroyed, but Christians will be given eternal life. Claiming destroy and perish mean something other than being utterly destroyed or perishing completely is a choice many make. They refuse to take words at face value while reprimanding others for not taking words at face value... which is rather blatantly hypocritical, don't you think? Some will even claim that the soul of man is already immortal which goes completely against what Scripture explicitly states, and there are those too who claim that anything God does lasts forever, which also goes against the clear teaching of Scripture.
Hi Tasha66,
What you stated above is a well know popular false apologetic.
The word of God is very clear on the subject of eternal punishment. It was not popularized by the Catholicism, but is found right in scripture over and over again many times. There are three words translated as Hell in scripture, which are actually three different places.
Tartartus/Tartaroo = Used one time in 2 Peter 2:4 most likely referring to the angels who took wives from the progeny of mankind. And who were imprisoned in Tartartus until the great white throne judgment, where at which time they will be judged and then thrown into the lake of fire.
Sheol/Hades = A temporary place of torment in flame located in the very depths of the earth (Matt.11:23). It is this place that both the spirits of the rich man and Lazarus went to after they died, with Lazarus being in the place of comfort/paradise and the rich man being on the other side of the chasm in torment in flame (I Samuel 28:15, Luke 16:19-31). Neither Sheol, nor Hades should ever be translated as the grave, tomb or sepulcher, but is defined as the place of departed spirits:
Strong's Concordance
hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Definition: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Usage: Hades, the unseen world.
HELPS Word-studies
86 hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.
Gehenna = The final place of punishment for all those whose names are not found in the book of life, also designated as the lake of fire, the second death and everlasting fire, the location of which is never mentioned.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
The word Apollumi translated as "destroy" is defined as "complete loss of well being, cut off, ruination and not annihilation or extinction.
What you stated above is a well know popular false apologetic.
The word of God is very clear on the subject of eternal punishment. It was not popularized by the Catholicism, but is found right in scripture over and over again many times. There are three words translated as Hell in scripture, which are actually three different places.
Tartartus/Tartaroo = Used one time in 2 Peter 2:4 most likely referring to the angels who took wives from the progeny of mankind. And who were imprisoned in Tartartus until the great white throne judgment, where at which time they will be judged and then thrown into the lake of fire.
Sheol/Hades = A temporary place of torment in flame located in the very depths of the earth (Matt.11:23). It is this place that both the spirits of the rich man and Lazarus went to after they died, with Lazarus being in the place of comfort/paradise and the rich man being on the other side of the chasm in torment in flame (I Samuel 28:15, Luke 16:19-31). Neither Sheol, nor Hades should ever be translated as the grave, tomb or sepulcher, but is defined as the place of departed spirits:
Strong's Concordance
hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Definition: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Usage: Hades, the unseen world.
HELPS Word-studies
86 hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.
Gehenna = The final place of punishment for all those whose names are not found in the book of life, also designated as the lake of fire, the second death and everlasting fire, the location of which is never mentioned.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
The word Apollumi translated as "destroy" is defined as "complete loss of well being, cut off, ruination and not annihilation or extinction.
Hello Dibby53,
God also does not want anyone to go to hell and provided a way for people to escape it by believing in His Son as the One who paid the penalty for their sins. Otherwise, everyone who has not received Christ remain condemned with God's wrath resting on them. God provided the way, but is not going to change the prescribed punishment for those who don't believe in His Son.
You and all believers should be zealous for the truth of the God's word on every subject. What I see in the world today is that if people don't personally agree with a truth in the word of God, they attempt to change it to their own liking. Jesus believed in everlasting punishment. This is the fulfillment of the following scripture:
"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Timothy 4:3)
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
God also does not want anyone to go to hell and provided a way for people to escape it by believing in His Son as the One who paid the penalty for their sins. Otherwise, everyone who has not received Christ remain condemned with God's wrath resting on them. God provided the way, but is not going to change the prescribed punishment for those who don't believe in His Son.
You and all believers should be zealous for the truth of the God's word on every subject. What I see in the world today is that if people don't personally agree with a truth in the word of God, they attempt to change it to their own liking. Jesus believed in everlasting punishment. This is the fulfillment of the following scripture:
"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Timothy 4:3)
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
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My point was, we don't Catholicism to terrify the general population, when Jesus Himself said:
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Since Jesus is saying the above, then it is not Catholic scare tactics that unbelievers need to worry about, but what God has to say about it.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Since Jesus is saying the above, then it is not Catholic scare tactics that unbelievers need to worry about, but what God has to say about it.
You may be called a heretic for refusing to accept the traditions and dogma of men, but if you look at the definition of the word "heretic" you may notice that it does not equate to blasphemy, nor is it a salvation issue.
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Again. Hell is not a 'place' but the state of mind and so are the heavens and earth and all existence (reality).
I lack the correct words to explain this 'strange' idea but beyond this current age, there will be know such thing as 'my loved ones' just like before you were born, there was no such thing as your loved ones.
Our journey in this so called 'physical world' has made us look at everything in a physical sense when they are not. It is our fallen mind that has created the physical and not God.
Look at it this way;
1. The new heavens and new earth are being created in those that are being saved
2. The current fallen/physical world is like darkness and once again, just like it was in the beginning, God is separating day from night (Genesis 1). Now, the things that were brought forth in the day (created) do not have knowledge of how it was in the darkness other than to rejoice in the day.
This is why you are being called the children of the light. The former things will not be remembered nor will they come to mind anymore.
2 Cor 4:
4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” a made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.
7But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.
Once again, God is separating day from night just like in Genesis 1 and when you are called into the light, you can not again claim 'loved ones' in the dark just like all the created thing did not have knowledge when light was separated from the darkness in the beginning. Those that remain in the darkness will continue with it and will never understand .
I lack the correct words to explain this 'strange' idea but beyond this current age, there will be know such thing as 'my loved ones' just like before you were born, there was no such thing as your loved ones.
Our journey in this so called 'physical world' has made us look at everything in a physical sense when they are not. It is our fallen mind that has created the physical and not God.
Look at it this way;
1. The new heavens and new earth are being created in those that are being saved
2. The current fallen/physical world is like darkness and once again, just like it was in the beginning, God is separating day from night (Genesis 1). Now, the things that were brought forth in the day (created) do not have knowledge of how it was in the darkness other than to rejoice in the day.
This is why you are being called the children of the light. The former things will not be remembered nor will they come to mind anymore.
2 Cor 4:
4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” a made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.
7But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.
Once again, God is separating day from night just like in Genesis 1 and when you are called into the light, you can not again claim 'loved ones' in the dark just like all the created thing did not have knowledge when light was separated from the darkness in the beginning. Those that remain in the darkness will continue with it and will never understand .
T
I'm sorry to hear you may not be on here soon Dibby. I think your posts are full of intelligence, wisdom and compassion, & it would be a shame to see you go.
You get people on all websites who love arguing and seeing how much discord and fear they can cause, espcecially with newbies. There are some on here that immediately attack ANY post that is put on here, with extremely harsh and unecessary criticism. Some seem fanatical, and that's definitely one way to turn people from Christianity, instead of towards it.
As a non-Bible expert, but one who wants to learn more, I am sure Jesus said to teach, rebuke and correct with loving patience.
I mean, one poor lady said her teenage daughter had upset her by wanting her bf to stay overnight in this lady's house, & her daugher called her old-fashioned etc. One person put a post on there to the effect that she was LETTING her daughter indulge in fornication - like the situation was all the mother's fault! (and many psychiatrists such as Freud blamed the mother for alot of things).
And another poor wee young lassie, who's account has now been deleted at her request, wanted help with something and all she did was post in the wrong section, and everybody went on about it - the reason being that if she posted in the correct section, she would get more answers. Fair enough. But that shouldn't have mattered at the time: the whole point of her posting on here was that she was ASKING FOR HELP, from people who she TRUSTED to tell her problems to. It's a big thing to open up to strangers online, as you also open yourself up to possible criticism, ridicule and yes, at times, outright hatred.
There is a terrible lack of compassion on here from some people I feel.
I've put a reply on here of something I was taught and I haven't disputed or argued against anyone's claim, re hell or hades. I've been ear bashed re sheol, and I never mentioned anything about sheol at all. I don't even know what sheol MEANS, though I have heard of it.
Some people just love arguing I guess. It's their life maybe to sit on a computer all day, and type out hateful statements against people who are loving, kind and vulnerable.
I too have prayed lately and I reckon God is telling me to move on, or move in a new direction.
I don't know if this is the site for me either - I've asked for my account to be deleted from the moderators, and nobody even bothered to reply to my request.
I have enjoyed being on here and met some lovely people, but the Christian compassion and help part is lacking with some people on here - their hatred & contempt for people who they think are 'lesser' beings than them, or who they deem as 'ignorant of God's word' is almost palpable. Newbies are HERE TO LEARN - we want to be taught and made wise, and share in God's / Jesus love and compassion, not to be talked down to in a rude & derogatory manner sometimes, like we are nothing and nobody in this world.
You can teach others with loving patience, good manners, compassion and kindness.
I hope you stay on Dibby, but you gotta do what you gotta do. If you do go, all my best wishes for the future hey
PS: we all add our own unique blend of cultures, knowledge and wisdom on here - and I think that is just fantastic.
You get people on all websites who love arguing and seeing how much discord and fear they can cause, espcecially with newbies. There are some on here that immediately attack ANY post that is put on here, with extremely harsh and unecessary criticism. Some seem fanatical, and that's definitely one way to turn people from Christianity, instead of towards it.
As a non-Bible expert, but one who wants to learn more, I am sure Jesus said to teach, rebuke and correct with loving patience.
I mean, one poor lady said her teenage daughter had upset her by wanting her bf to stay overnight in this lady's house, & her daugher called her old-fashioned etc. One person put a post on there to the effect that she was LETTING her daughter indulge in fornication - like the situation was all the mother's fault! (and many psychiatrists such as Freud blamed the mother for alot of things).
And another poor wee young lassie, who's account has now been deleted at her request, wanted help with something and all she did was post in the wrong section, and everybody went on about it - the reason being that if she posted in the correct section, she would get more answers. Fair enough. But that shouldn't have mattered at the time: the whole point of her posting on here was that she was ASKING FOR HELP, from people who she TRUSTED to tell her problems to. It's a big thing to open up to strangers online, as you also open yourself up to possible criticism, ridicule and yes, at times, outright hatred.
There is a terrible lack of compassion on here from some people I feel.
I've put a reply on here of something I was taught and I haven't disputed or argued against anyone's claim, re hell or hades. I've been ear bashed re sheol, and I never mentioned anything about sheol at all. I don't even know what sheol MEANS, though I have heard of it.
Some people just love arguing I guess. It's their life maybe to sit on a computer all day, and type out hateful statements against people who are loving, kind and vulnerable.
I too have prayed lately and I reckon God is telling me to move on, or move in a new direction.
I don't know if this is the site for me either - I've asked for my account to be deleted from the moderators, and nobody even bothered to reply to my request.
I have enjoyed being on here and met some lovely people, but the Christian compassion and help part is lacking with some people on here - their hatred & contempt for people who they think are 'lesser' beings than them, or who they deem as 'ignorant of God's word' is almost palpable. Newbies are HERE TO LEARN - we want to be taught and made wise, and share in God's / Jesus love and compassion, not to be talked down to in a rude & derogatory manner sometimes, like we are nothing and nobody in this world.
You can teach others with loving patience, good manners, compassion and kindness.
I hope you stay on Dibby, but you gotta do what you gotta do. If you do go, all my best wishes for the future hey
PS: we all add our own unique blend of cultures, knowledge and wisdom on here - and I think that is just fantastic.
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Saved Christians debate this all the time. This is what we do know. Jesus speaks about Hell. So we know a Hell exists or a place for the unrepentant sinners.
Where Christians disagree is if Hell is eternal or finite. Meaning the soul will be eternally separated or eternally destroyed.
Keep in mind the English translations in many scriptures use the word Hell but in the original language it had 3 different meanings.
Sheol
The common word for hell in the Old Testament is “Sheol” which means “the grave”
Hades
The rich man went to hades at death and was tormented in flames (Luke 16:24). The punishment of hades is (1) burning, (2) separation/loneliness, (3) conviction by memory, (4) thirst, (5) falling, and (6) stench.
Gehenna
This word appears only twelve times in the New Testament and is translated “hell.” The Lord Jesus used this term eleven times. Was a historical metaphor to describe that Hell isnt a desirable place to be.
To believe that Hell doesn't exist is anti Biblical but on the theological differences this has been debated very early on.
I for one lean more towards that the second death is soul death and if a soul is destroyed then that is the end of the line.
But either way a eternal or finite doesn't affect God's judgment or make him immoral. He just with either punishment.
Also many debate on what Hell is. Some believe that torment means torture. But when researched this isn't the case. Hell basically will be a place totally separated from God. A place without God is place where all of Gods good qualities are absent. A place filled with self absorbed, evil, hate filled souls that hate God and hate everyone else. Without God there is no love, kindness, peace, goodness, etc.
People in hell chose hell. No one ends up there by accident. Everyone in Hell deserves what God decides because they are guilty of a life filled with sin and rebellion.
Where Christians disagree is if Hell is eternal or finite. Meaning the soul will be eternally separated or eternally destroyed.
Keep in mind the English translations in many scriptures use the word Hell but in the original language it had 3 different meanings.
Sheol
The common word for hell in the Old Testament is “Sheol” which means “the grave”
Hades
The rich man went to hades at death and was tormented in flames (Luke 16:24). The punishment of hades is (1) burning, (2) separation/loneliness, (3) conviction by memory, (4) thirst, (5) falling, and (6) stench.
Gehenna
This word appears only twelve times in the New Testament and is translated “hell.” The Lord Jesus used this term eleven times. Was a historical metaphor to describe that Hell isnt a desirable place to be.
To believe that Hell doesn't exist is anti Biblical but on the theological differences this has been debated very early on.
I for one lean more towards that the second death is soul death and if a soul is destroyed then that is the end of the line.
But either way a eternal or finite doesn't affect God's judgment or make him immoral. He just with either punishment.
Also many debate on what Hell is. Some believe that torment means torture. But when researched this isn't the case. Hell basically will be a place totally separated from God. A place without God is place where all of Gods good qualities are absent. A place filled with self absorbed, evil, hate filled souls that hate God and hate everyone else. Without God there is no love, kindness, peace, goodness, etc.
People in hell chose hell. No one ends up there by accident. Everyone in Hell deserves what God decides because they are guilty of a life filled with sin and rebellion.
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