Should unrepentant cohabitation (shacking up) result in church discipline and disfellowshipment?

Easy question...

Should unrepentant cohabitation (shacking up), defined as enjoying the sexual benefits of marriage outside of marriage, be a cause for church discipline and disfellowshipment?

And, if someone is involved in it, and is allowed to stay within the fellowship, does that disqualify him as a teacher?

Additionally, how would your answer be affected if the person was not a member of the church, but was a regular attender long-term?

Here's why I am asking. I have a friend that I care about. He's attending some kind of Arminian church that apparently believes it is fine to cohabitate. The pastor knows about the situation, presumably, because his pastor is a facebook friend of both individuals.

The woman he is cohabitating with is also a member of this Arminian church.

I met the guy as I was working in a parachurch ministry related to recovery. He was one of the people I was attempting to help. To be honest, it's quite frustrating when someone seems to be making progress as a new believer, but then gets involved in something like that.

He is actually involved in addictions recovery (which was his main issue) with his church group. He goes into the jail environment and is involved in presenting lessons to them related to recovery.

Perhaps this is denomination-oriented. Is this normal in Arminian churches? I know that Reformed Baptist churches would discipline someone who was involved in this, due to their high view of God's law.

I find it bizarre that any church could be so blind that they don't know that cohabitation is a work of the flesh. And, I thought the guy was in good hands with this pastor. It seems like for all of the Arminian talk about holiness, to me, it is nothing but hot air.

Please be aware that I am concerned more with the corrective value of church discipline/disfellowshipment. My desire is that he repents.

I didn't find out about his cohabitation until recently. The woman's daughter died in a house fire, and he informed me that he was living with the mother so he had grown quite fond of the child. It isn't the right time for me to mention this issue as the funeral is tomorrow and they are still grieving.

However, I will very likely talk to him about it and tell him what a big disappointment this is to me personally. I had hopes that perhaps a few people were helped by the parachurch ministry activity, and he was actually someone that I had a lot of hopes for.

By the way, I have found that this tendency to claim one is holier than others, yet to be involved in immorality, is common amongst Judaizers too.

I talked to one Judaizer (Sabbath/festivals/clean met guy) who was degrading Christians who meet on Sunday. Turns out he was shacking up with a woman. Another one isn't married to the woman he's been living with for decades, and has children with.

Amazing. All it takes is a marriage license and a little time to get married. There's really no excuse for shacking up, and dishonoring God in this way, if one claims to be a Christian.

A good article on this topic:

https://corechristianity.com/resour...3EN-BT0W3mxm73YhLXeklxPonHRvZryAWMqQ_PWgBLPnY

Yep!

Cohabitation amongst members of the church is indeed troubling and needs to be addressed, not swept under the rug. (But so do other unrepentant sins.) I believe God led me to initiate a conversation in a humble, loving manner on this subject with a girl I knew. I asked her to read some specific Scriptures from the Bible I had brought. I listened as she gave me a long explanation. It was hard for me to know what to say. I had prayed over the meeting. I do wonder if I neglected to speak enough about hope... Like "God can forgive you and you can turn from this and be used by Him in awesome ways if you will repent..." Idk. I don't think she repented. I felt sorry for her, because she had lived her life with the absence of a Dad. That right there can make you vulnerable to this type of sin I think. Though, of course it does not excuse it.
Personally, I haven't really seen church discipline enacted. But I am convinced the Church in America is suffering for lack of purity and consecration to God.

If they are flaunting their situation Yes. If not, let God deal with them and pray for their Salvation.

is anything resulting in church discipline in 2019? no. fornication, adultery, drunkenness, smoking dope, clubbing. everything goes its free falling in churches now.

praises to God some churches are still practicing church discipline. i voted yes, but i dont know if this means they are fornicating or just living together? i can only speak for myself if i live with a woman i will fornicate with her 100% surely. thats why i wouldnt put myself in that situation. i try my best also to never be alone with women im not married to. because we all know nothing good wil come of it.... its easier to avoid it than to try play with fire. i heard of one pastor who went to stripclubs to preach in the south and wasnt long until he ran off with one of them. we need to be careful and mind where we are.

lets blame it on God, He made women so great. hahaha. no of course not, we need to have self-control, its one of the fruits of the Spirit. look at it like one big test life itself is. our faith is proven through trials

i see you made this one (like all other posts here) about "arminian churches" and reformed churches.
you want talk about reformed churches of america, presbyterians? these lgbt churches ok? yeah the reformed really appreciate God's law, if i ever want to hear sissies preach i will go to a presbyterian church to hear preaching with no power just theological slang. another covert thread for you to promote the cult of calvin. im on to your demeaning of others already. wont work

What about gossips, busybodies, church skippers, those that never cook or bring food to the potlucks, unruly deacons that think they run the churches, preachers that tickle ears desiring to be tickled, the members caught buying lottery tickets, oh yeah...and the women that wear jeans, have short hair, and kids with nose studs, tattoos..........

@dcontroversal all those need to be addressed too. get on it big bro!

I wear jeans...🤔

Ummmmmm😳😲😯

Assuming all those people are sinning (some of them are sinful), does this justify the sin of sexual immorality?

I don't think most of them are.

Or, is this verse meaningless?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Apparently these particular sins are characteristic of those who are outside of the kingdom.

By the way, my position would be that this verse is descriptive rather than prescriptive but either way, God expects holiness.

Those who are his are going to be holy, if this verse has any value:

2 Timothy 2:19 19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

If both of the sections of this verse are true, then 1) God knows who are his (the elect) and 2) those elect must depart from iniquity.

I don't think others' sinfulness should comfort us at any rate.

I don't see any problem with that.

I think it might be a sin if I wear jeans, since I would show my plumber's cleavage

Here are some Scriptures referenced in the article.

In light of these Scriptures, can anyone make a case for God taking the topic of sexual immorality lightly?

1 Corinthians 7:2 2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

Hebrews 13:4 4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

Acts 15:19-20 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. 8 Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Genesis 2:24-25 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.


Apparently, God thinks sexuality is important.

I think it is because of the intimate connection between the marriage covenant and the union between the believer and Christ. The covenant between Christ and the believer is a lifetime thing, and is not the uncommitted relationship between a man and his shack-up partner.

Perhaps one doesn't understand that if he is not Reformed, though, since they think God will simply exit the relationship at some point. Or, maybe they don't comprehend what union with Christ is about.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The Bible says that some have a form of godliness, but deny the Spirit to lead them as they enjoy sin, from such turn away from them, and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

Which a couple living together not married would seem like a fleshy pleasure for it is not legal in God's eyes.

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Those that engage in these things do not eat with them, and put that wicked person away from among yourselves.

2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

But I do not believe this has to do with the building of God, the Church, where people come to praise God, and hear the word of God, and repent of their sins, for while the saints outside the building should not keep company with the hypocrites I believe in the Church building they should be welcome as long as they do not cause any trouble, or cause someone to stumble.

If someone has a problem stealing, or fornicating, I do not believe they should be banned from the Church building for that is what it is for to realize you need to get rid of your sins, and grow in Christ, and let that be between God and them for they offended God not the Church people, and they should be able to worship God and hear the word of God like everyone else, and they might get rid of their sins.

But outside the Church building those not hypocritical should not keep company with those being hypocritical for it does not look good.

But if a Church preaches the holiness of Jesus and to act accordingly and some do not comply that does not reflect on the Church for they are preaching truth, and everyone is welcome whether they live in sin or not for it is God's house, and the Church is a good setting to straighten them up.

In a Church building you only associate with who you want to associate with anyway and you do not have to associate with certain ones but they should still be able to be at the Church building, and to snub them looking down on them in a condemning manner is a sin right there, for judge not lest you be judged for we are sinners saved by grace.

That is the way I see it do not associate with them outside the Church building, but they should be able to go to the Church building for the place should be for all whether hypocritical, or living like Christ, or first getting saved.

But the main thing is if the Church preaches the truth for that is the foundation, and if some do not comply that is on the person not the Church for the Church has it covered on what is truth, and that is to act Christlike, and a man and a woman should be married to have sex.

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

In a great house there is some to honor and some to dishonor, and if those to dishonor do right they will be a vessel unto honor, so it appears as if God says it is alright for them to be in the physical building even though they are hypocritical for all should be welcome at the Church, and it does not reflect badly on the Church if the preacher speaks out against hypocritical, and wrong behavior that is not Christlike, for then the bases are covered of how the Church stands.

The Church is for people that need to repent of their sins whether for the first time, or from hypocritical behavior.

I do not think it is any of the preacher's business who is doing what in the Church physical building as long as they are acting properly when there.

The preacher just needs to do their job of presenting the truth, and let God deal with their behavior.

2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

They should be able to go to the Church building but put them on ignore, and do not keep company with them, so that hopefully they will be ashamed and stop their behavior.

I just do not see keeping a person from going to the Church building because they are involved in fornication, but would see it as wrong if the preacher did not speak against their wrongful behavior, and said it is alright, for that would be the error, although do not bring up any person's sin, but speak against the sin in a general way of saying all sin is bad.

There are so many people that go to Church that do little things that are a sin and think well it is not that bad, but all sin is unrighteousness, and if you offend in the least of the law you offend in all.

With respect to everything you say, and the fact that you care about your friend, you have no idea what he is doing or not doing with this woman, and I don't think it is any of your business. This poor woman is in a very vulnerable position at present. He may just be living there to support her. And during times of great grief, the lines get blurred, people get confused etc and don't know what they want. My prayers go out to her. And I don't think it is any of your business at this time.
And may I say from someone who works in mental health, your friend will not thank you for bringing up a very personal, intimate topic when this poor woman is grieving for her wee girl.
"However, I will very likely talk to him about it and tell him what a big disappointment this is to me personally. I had hopes that perhaps a few people were helped by the parachurch ministry activity, and he was actually someone that I had a lot of hopes for."
You say it's a disappointment for you personally. I reckon you are projecting your own feelings of disappointment onto your friend for not becoming your prodigy by the sounds of it. I think you are more annoyed that he's not become what you think he should become. He sounds like he's doing good work already, & doing the best that he can, whilst supporting this lady and her daughter too.
This situation isn't about you or him - it's about a grieving family who need time to sort themselves out.
What about just offering your condolences and saying you will be there to support them all in any way you can? This is going to be a very stressful time for everybody with a funeral looming.
I'd leave the cohabitation talk for another time.
And I would commend your friend for the work that he is doing.
I often wonder what has happened to Christian forgiveness & charity in this world. Yes Christians have higher standards than others (or are supposed to anyway). I am no Bible expert, but doesn't it say in the Bible that we should "correct others gently and with forgiveness?"
I think you are getting too upset & righteous over something that would be better left alone for now.
Also I have cohabited with men in the past just as friends, and have never done anything with them unless I was going out with them, so I do think it's extremely judgemental just to assume things when you have no facts. Maybe your friend is happy in his church & religion, & happy with what he is presently doing.
Maybe they will get married much later on - who knows?
I don't think it's for others to judge, just on an assumption.

Hi brother, it may also be the direction that your friend's local church, not the affiliated denomination, has decided to go.

I was part of a VERY conservative PCUSA local church that was far more conservative than the denomination, or any of the other PCUSA church in town. There was, in fact, one PCUSA church that was ordaining homosexual ministers and performing same-sex marriages not more than a few miles away from us, and this was back in the late 80's when the denomination would have NEVER permitted it (if they knew it was happening). That, sadly, is no longer true today with the PCUSA denomination

In fact, it was not too long after that when I decided to leave my church, not because of what we, as a church, believed and taught, but because of the extreme liberal directions that the PCUSA denomination was heading in, and this was back in the mid-90's.

I think this has far less to do with his church being "Arminian" than it does with his church and/or denomination being "liberal".

I don't believe Charles Wesley would have permitted, much less encouraged open sinful behavior (of any sort). Do you have firsthand knowledge that this is what your friend's pastor/church allow and teach, or is this all coming through him If it is the latter, you may want to make sure that you know what the truth really is (and if you find that it is true, whether it is true of the church, or the denomination, or both).

~Deut

People with short hair & jeans shouldn't go to church?? How is this a sin?
You can wear nice, dress jeans - many young kids do.
Jesus preached in the fields in the dirt with his sandals on & a long robe & long hair.
We shouldn't be judging people on their clothes etc. Some people don't have alot of money for new clothes or hair cuts. And if you turn away younger ones with nose rings, they won't go to church & will turn away from religion instead.
There was a Youtube vid on not long ago where a new pastor hadn't met any of his congregation yet. He sat outside the church and acted homeless, wore old clothes etc. From memory, he wasn't allowed inside or was asked to sit at the back & wasn't treated very well. Imagine the astonishment of the congregation when he got up to the pulpit, and told them he was that homeless man, & that they all needed to show more Christian charity.
Not saying there shouldn't be some standards, but maybe we should remember Jesus example & accept all who turn to Christ.