Is unconditional election biblical?

at 5 years old, when I accepted Christ, I did not hate God. In fact, I had never heard about Him

everyone does not hate God. Many have never heard...which the Bible clearly indicates

I remember one young man who had never heard and when he learned...and I needed a translator cause at the time my French was not that good...he accepted Jesus and even spoke in tongues. He stood at the altar with tears streaming down his face and hands upraised praising God. He had never heard before

like the Bible says...How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? Romans 10:14

everyone does not hate God. actually, they would have to know about Him in order to hate Him

that total depravity thing just does not fly

I never thought that I would agree with you, but the natural man, void of the Holy Spirit, doesn't dwell upon a spiritual God that he does not believe exists, however I disagree with your last statement. The natural man is totally depraved, as we all are by our nature.

i will disprove not only total depravity, but also the misusing of ephesians 2:1 (etc). they say these verses proof that man is just spiritually dead and cant do anything, God needs to resurrect them before they can hear and believe gospel. but this is not what bible means with dead spiritually, that they cant think anymore.

the parable of the prodigal son he went to the world wasted his fortune was in there with the pigs.

Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.


the father says "my son was dead and is alive again". when the son was "dead" he wasnt incapable of thinking or feeling remose, look in the story where i posted, "he came to himself" and then made up his mind said "i will arise and go to my father" and he was humble to say I have sinned against heaven and before thee. so then he goes back and Father forgives him, this is what Jesus also means when Jesus says God gives grace to the humble.

so we see being "dead" spiritually doesnt mean yo cant feel bad for your sins, repent and turn to God and be forgiven freely.
we dont even need bible to see this like seasrekeyed said. many people dont hate God they never even heard of Jesus

thats what i meant to say. its very cultic. thats what i mean when i said they all talk the same way, have teh same personality(or lack of it) and use the same language. its either a cult of personality because i notice they all even talk with same tone of voice as james whitelie. they are true fanboys
i can actually tell someone is a calvinist pastor from hearing how they speak. not joking they dont need to say anything "calvinistic". i can just tell from the rhythm of what they speak, maybe they are taught to speak that way.

You forget one thing. He was his father's son before he left home and he was still his father's son while he was gone. The natural man, before he is born of the Spirit is not God's child.

King Agrippa believed the Scriptures and was almost persuaded by Paul to be a christian.

Are we back to determining who is and who is not the elect? It is possible that King Agrippa could have been born of the Spirit.

Are we back to determining who is and who is not the elect? It is possible that King Agrippa could have been born of the Spirit.

oh really?

is this where you deviate from all that limited atonement nonsense?

I mean if you are one of the elect, you are one of the elect no matter where you may be in life

so really, he was always saved in your economy

just more word salad and the dressing is past it's best before date

you belong to possibly an even worse group...the Baptist whatever you call yourselves

You just have to copy and paste, these long passages which no one reads! I had to delete most of it because it made my short post over 10,000 words!

This Reformed person has known she is saved since God first saved me, 39 years ago! I knew nothing about soteriology, I only knew that I belonged to Jesus, and it was his choice, not mine.

When I was in Arminian churches it always concerned me that sinner's prayers were pushed as a way to be saved. It meant the person was choosing to be saved, not God choosing them. God chose me, I did not choose him. I also couldn't believe that someone could lose their salvation. I knew I was secure in Christ. Even during my bad years, when I was so depressed from the pain of severe Rheumatoid Arthritis, and I got angry at God, because my theology was so immature, I knew he was there, right behind me, waiting for me to turn around. He spent months telling me daily to read 5 Psalms a day. And when I finally did, I read the Psalms for 2 years, reading all 150 of them once a month. At some point, I turned and ran back into God's arms, and he welcomed me back. I was saved the whole time. Because my salvation is dependent upon God's sovereignty, not this weak, plain vessel, who sins and makes mistakes. God elected me, and made me his. And God does not make mistakes.

I feel sorry for Arminians, and the so called people in the middle! They have little assurance of real salvation, because they know they cannot trust themselves. But, trusting God, acknowledging him as the Saviour of the world, is so easy, so wonderful, so joyful. I love Hebrews 13:5 that says, "I will never leave or forsake you."

My confidence is in God alone, not in Calvin, and not myself!

this wheres waldo game is the big problem with calvinism too. will the real elect please stand up?

king agrippa didnt get saved then, maybe he did later who knows, but from what we know in bible he wasnt a saved man. thats it.
he wasnt born of the Spirit because he didnt believe in Jesus. very easy to figure it out

this wheres waldo game is the big problem with calvinism too. will the real elect please stand up?

king agrippa didnt get saved then, maybe he did later who knows, but from what we know in bible he wasnt a saved man. thats it.
he wasnt born of the Spirit because he didnt believe in Jesus. very easy to figure it out

King Agrippa did wash his hands of the whole thing, but you go right on and separate the sheep from the goats if you think you are that smart.

King Agrippa did wash his hands of the whole thing, but you go right on and separate the sheep from the goats if you think you are that smart.

Still doesn't affect free will.



I prefer the statement God has worked within mankind to fulfill His purpose.



How does this negate free will? Born in rebellion born with the curse of Adam. Once called can not one come out of rebellion? Once acknowledgment of sin can not one see they need a Savior?

Psalm 58 New International Version (NIV)
Psalm 58[a]
For the director of music. To the tune of “Do Not Destroy.” Of David. A miktam.[b]
1 Do you rulers indeed speak justly?
Do you judge people with equity?
2 No, in your heart you devise injustice,
and your hands mete out violence on the earth.
3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

This is written more as poetry. How does a baby be wicked, to devise injustice, and commit violence? How does one lie from the womb? David was writing about wicked rulers and the enemies around him. More accurately it is understood that many people go astray early in life. All are sinners and carry the curse but that doesn't imply total depravity and abolish moral law or the ability to freely think and decide.



Only speaking for free will. Christ is needed. Without a sacrifice for sins that we all too often freely fall into makes us guilty. What is free choice going to do against a holy perfect judge without a Holy perfect sacrifice? We need freedom from sin not freedom from mind. We know good and evil exists the law within us or the written laws tells us this.



Oh boy straight from the Calvinist play book. Romans 9:21 ( isn't about salvation but on services that God designed for his people to do. In context this is speaking on the Jewish people. Some honorable while some common. But if you go with your belief this means you are puppet.

9:22 doesn't say God prepared vessels of wrath but only that he endured or was patient so they would not be without excuse.

Why is God patient if the individual is forced to respond?

9:23-24 God does prepare people for glory. We are in a constant state between glory to glory.

9:25 not sure why you capitalized it but okay I dont see it proving your point?



It may look that way in a debate over if free will is of man. Lol but I can boldly say God gets all the glory.



Great but what about babies? What about the mentally handicap you dont preach to? How can a damage brain understand your language? Why preach at all? The chosen will find God regardless.



Well so far your 3 starters dont prove your point.

King Agrippa believed the Scriptures and was almost persuaded by Paul to be a christian.

You just have to copy and paste, these long passages which no one reads! I had to delete most of it because it made my short post over 10,000 words!

This Reformed person has known she is saved since God first saved me, 39 years ago! I knew nothing about soteriology, I only knew that I belonged to Jesus, and it was his choice, not mine.

When I was in Arminian churches it always concerned me that sinner's prayers were pushed as a way to be saved. It meant the person was choosing to be saved, not God choosing them. God chose me, I did not choose him. I also couldn't believe that someone could lose their salvation. I knew I was secure in Christ. Even during my bad years, when I was so depressed from the pain of severe Rheumatoid Arthritis, and I got angry at God, because my theology was so immature, I knew he was there, right behind me, waiting for me to turn around. He spent months telling me daily to read 5 Psalms a day. And when I finally did, I read the Psalms for 2 years, reading all 150 of them once a month. At some point, I turned and ran back into God's arms, and he welcomed me back. I was saved the whole time. Because my salvation is dependent upon God's sovereignty, not this weak, plain vessel, who sins and makes mistakes. God elected me, and made me his. And God does not make mistakes.

I feel sorry for Arminians, and the so called people in the middle! They have little assurance of real salvation, because they know they cannot trust themselves. But, trusting God, acknowledging him as the Saviour of the world, is so easy, so wonderful, so joyful. I love Hebrews 13:5 that says, "I will never leave or forsake you."

My confidence is in God alone, not in Calvin, and not myself!

A true Calvinist believes they were never lost but was chosen before the foundation of the world.