Galatian Conundrums

Yeah, I said that too.

Guojong calls it a progressive revelation. I think I could agree with that term. Sort of, depending on how it is applied.


I Don't agree that there was a separate Gospel given to Jews and then a totally different one given to Gentiles.

How do you figure that? The verse you cited doesn't say so... at all.

Do you not believe in the good news message to Israel of the restoration of their kingdom with the seed of David ruling on that earthly throne? One would have to disregard all the prophecies or spiritualize them.

The disciples understood and were waiting for Jesus to restore Israel’s kingdom. That’s what they though He was going to do in the first place.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

As I have already said, you cannot take verses like Acts 4:12 and Matt 11:28 out of context, in terms of the audience.

Both Peter and Jesus were preaching exclusively to the Jews in those passages.

There is no need for either of them to add "Oh by the way, you still have to keep the Law of Moses even after you believe in Jesus". It is understood by all who heard him that the Law must still be kept.

Thus, it cannot be the same Gospel as what Paul would preach later, that we are dead to the Law.

You said dbr was the salvation message.
How would someone frame salvation outside the person of Jesus.
True his sacrifice paid the requirement of innocent blood,and his resurrection was a firstfruit resurrection that millions could also enjoy resurrection.

But i like the gospel Jesus preached.
YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.
a new heart. A new creation.
Not words. Not doctrine. Not "dbr" words only,but a person. A personal inhabator. A personal walk with the creator. Restored mankind back into fellowship,and a betrothal at the last supper with a promise to take his bride there to heaven.

That is the good news. That is what Jesus walked out and preached pre asention.

You guys seem to make the bible a dangerous book of paranoia. So paranoid over the law that any non pauline book becomes your enemy.

Even the Christ himself is 2 different persons. One flawed pre dbr,and another only slightly confused until Paul came along and made all things right.

I am glad i have no such error to unlearn.
That hyper paul doctrine is a rabbit trail.
I really grieve for those sucked into minimising the person of Jesus and His holy book.

Anyone that really knows Jesus defines salvation in the person of Jesus,not a doctrine.

Ironically the paranoid hyper paulines obey the law of moses everyday as do all obedient believers.

The irony is profound

...and yet you keep it everyday

I don't think they understand nor care about the contents of the Gospel of the Kingdom, in terms of a physical kingdom based in Jerusalem, as prophesied in Jeremiah 23:5-6.

I also like how Zechariah proclaimed it in Luke 1

Luke 1 (NLT)
68 “Praise the Lord, the God of Israel,
because he has visited and redeemed his people.
69 He has sent us a mighty Savior[h]
from the royal line of his servant David,
70 just as he promised
through his holy prophets long ago.
71 Now we will be saved from our enemies
and from all who hate us.
72 He has been merciful to our ancestors
by remembering his sacred covenant—
73 the covenant he swore with an oath
to our ancestor Abraham.

Note all the bold references in this proclaimation from Zechariah, who was filled with the Holy Spirit, was to Israel and the Jews.

There is absolutely zero mention of the Gentiles.

Yeah but by starting a 2 gospel doctrine they get out of accountability.
No 4 gospel impprtance of Jesus's words. No great comission,or any adherance to the rebukes and commands of the 7 letters to the 7 churches.
They can just say "hey its all grace,sin is no big deal because He slicks us down with greasy grace. Sin is already covered yahooo"

No need to walk holy. The seven letters to the seven churches are just filling space in the bible as is the pre dbr Jesus.

death burial and resurrection.

They are PART of the gospel.
The person of Jesus being the gospel comdensed to one word.

I would offer...

The letter of the law kills as the wrath of God revealed from heaven.The gospel heals as it is written (the faith princible)

It as it is written maintains a moral code. Christian who break the law are subject to it. No law no trespass. . .(Anarchy) Humanity perishes.

Christ by a work of his faith labor of His love (law of faith) paid the eternal wage in full. The temporal will not disappear until the letter of the law does

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I don’t understand half of your thought here, but the new birth happens by believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This was not preached before the cross.

One gospel . . . If any man has not the born again Spirit of Christ, he simply does not belong to Him.. God is no respecter of the flesh.

No lost tribes when it comes to a imputed righteousness .Christians will not be found with a righteous that come from a law "that kills" .They would have no way to keep it perfectly ..

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12.

It would seem that how we understand the word keep or kept is causing a separation in the gospel understanding.

No one save Christ could keep it perfectly without sin . Because he did keep it perfectly we have salvation in his name. To keep throughout the Bible as far as us is to guard it carefully with all our heart soul and mind. It is that faith that works in us, not of us lest any man boast in false pride..

If we deny him unbelief he cannot deny he has paid the wage of our sin in full. .

2 Timothy 2:11-13 King James Version (KJV) It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not,(no faith) yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

We defend the faith as the armor of God. . it that comes from hearing Him . It is not of ourselves. Keep up the faith.

The destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70 as prophesied by Jesus ended the law of Moses, and with that, Jewish ritual and customs became a charade.

Mark 16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Jn 12
34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?

35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Mark 16
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

yeah,Jesus preach a diff gospel huh?

Now,check this out,i just happened across this in the same chapter;
11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

And what,pray tell was that doctrine Jesus opposed???
Their laws of moses.

The same thing you guys accuse Jesus of.

now note the other nugget that came out in my 3 minute search;
Jn 12;36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Hmmmm, you guys preach that Jesus was percieved to present the messiah was come to restore earth to the Jews.

Here his teaching brings the opposite doctrine.

Thats 3 concepts destroyed in 3 minutes

Wrong. The gentiles are not and have never been under the Law as given to Moses. Once again, you are incorrect, and your bafflegab explanation is irrelevant.

Once you trace it backwards it all becomes focused.
If you take the original dilemma,mans fall and need for reconciliation,and factor in Gods requirement for reconciliation,innocent blood,it becomes evident that both the law and innocent blood of animals is only temporary and point to the lawgiver and the passover sacrificial lamb & animal sacrifice under the levitical priesthood.

When the veil was torn,the only innocent blood shed forever had just been shed.
Ending of the levitical priesthood and any other innocent blood.

The law is no longer written for those born again. It is burned into our hearts. But the law of love,as Jesus said ,covers most all of it.
I must understand the panaramic dynamic or forever enter the Law/grace merry go round.

Law yes. Why? Because the unsaved world is not under grace. But we as Gods family are held HIGHER THAN THE WRITTEN LAW. WAY HIGHER. higher into holiness. A walk of devotion and adoration is ALWAYS going to walk holy. And should you grieve the Holy Spirit,it BREAKS YOUR HEART.

31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Jesus just told them the gospel, yet they did not understand the gospel. What were they going around preaching then?

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

They were preaching the gospel of the kingdom which included the restoration of Israel’s kingdom on earth. They were not preaching the d,b,r of Jesus.

It was John the Baptist preaching the kingdom of heaven is at hand, meaning Jesus, who would be born, died, and resurrected.