Is total depravity (radical corruption) a biblical teaching?

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

A number of individuals have responded in a very derogatory manner toward Reformed theology.

I realize their attitude is a very common one within evangelical Christianity.

Among other things, Reformed theology focuses on the doctrines of grace. The doctrines of grace have been commonly referred to as TULIP.

Total depravity
Unconditional election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints

I don't exactly like the labels involved in the TULIP acronym. For example, I prefer the phrase "radical corruption" or "total inability".

The concept is this: man, in his natural state before salvation, is corrupted in all areas of his life due to the Fall. He is spiritually dead, in fact, and requires a spiritual resurrection in order to enter into a relationship with God. Therefore, in his natural state, he is totally helpless to do anything for himself in the real of spiritual life. He cannot cause himself to come to life again. Therefore, God must spiritually resurrect him to new life. This resurrection is called being "born again", or being "born from above".

Ephesians 2:1-10 is probably one of the best explanations of the gospel in this manner.

Ephesians 2:1-10 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

The gist is this: man, in his unsaved state, is spiritually dead and is unable to do anything for himself, just like a corpse laying on a table cannot do anything. Someone in the room might talk, but he wouldn't understand it. God raises the spiritually dead man so he can respond.

However, I don't want to get into the areas covered by the other four points yet. I only want to focus on total depravity or radical corruption.

I would like to present the Reformed definition of total depravity (radical corruption), and the free-willer response to it. Then, I will present Scriptures relating to the Reformed position. Finally, I will make some remarks in conclusion.

I plan on doing this for the other four doctrines of grace as well, in the future.

I am going to start a poll on whether the doctrine of total depravity is biblical. Please note that I"m not really concerned about whether this view is the most popular. Popular doctrines aren't always the true doctrine, and in this case I think some are very offended over the nature of the doctrines of grace, especially with all the anti-Reformed rhetoric that has been propagated within Christianity.

I am also attaching a document that summarizes the Scriptures I will post.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

REFORMED DOCTRINE OF TOTAL DEPRAVITY

ALIASES

Radical Corruption
Total Inability

DEFINITION

Because of the Fall, man is unable, of his own resources, to believe the gospel in a saving sense.

The unsaved person is spiritually dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God. His heart is deceitful and desperately corrupted. His will is not free; it is in bondage to his evil nature. Therefore, he will not – and cannot – choose good over evil. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ. It takes regeneration, by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. He must be spiritually resurrected, or raised to spiritual life, in order to respond to God. Unlike free-willers teach, faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God’s gift of salvation. It is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.

FREE-WILLER RESPONSE

The free-willer response to total depravity (radical corruption) is free will or human ability.

Although human nature was seriously affected by the Fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does so in such a manner as not to interfere with man’s freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man’s freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power either to cooperate with God’s spirit and be regenerated, as a product of this cooperation, or to resist God’s grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit’s assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man’s act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner’s gift to God; it is man’s contribution to his salvation.

NOTE: I am using the phrase free-willer to describe the Arminian position, as well as the position of many others with similar theology. Reformed believers don’t believe man is a robot, and doesn’t make any decisions. Reformed theology teaches that man’s will is subject to his fallen nature, therefore he makes sinful choices as an overall orientation. In the case of believers, man’s will is subject to his regenerate nature, therefore he makes righteous choices as an overall orientation.

The analogy of a fish in a pond is good to understand this. A fish can swim around his pond all he wants, but he isn’t free to jump out of the pond and live on land. Humans do not have libertarian free will, like some claim, but they have creaturely free will. This concept is biblically solid, although the exact phrases are not used.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

All men are spiritually dead at physical birth.

Genesis 2:16-17 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Ephesians 2:1-3 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Colossians 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

All men are born in sin at physical birth.

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;
they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

All men sin as a result of their spiritual deadness.

2 Chronicles 6:36 36 “If they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to a land far or near,

1 Kings 8:46 “If they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near

Psalms 130:3 3 If you, O Lord, should mark iniquities,
O Lord, who could stand?

Psalms 143:2 Enter not into judgment with your servant,
for no one living is righteous before you.

Proverbs 20:9 9 Who can say, “I have made my heart pure;
I am clean from my sin”?

Ecclesiastes 7:20 20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Ecclesiastes 7:29 29 See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.

Isaiah 53:6 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isaiah 64:6 6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Job 15:14-16 14 What is man, that he can be pure?
Or he who is born of a woman, that he can be righteous?
15 Behold, God puts no trust in his holy ones,
and the heavens are not pure in his sight;
16 how much less one who is abominable and corrupt,
a man who drinks injustice like water!

Psalms 130:3 3 If you, O Lord, should mark iniquities,
O Lord, who could stand?

Psalms 143:2 Enter not into judgment with your servant,
for no one living is righteous before you.

Proverbs 20:9 9 Who can say, “I have made my heart pure;
I am clean from my sin”?

Ecclesiastes 7:20 20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
(ESV)

Ecclesiastes 7:29 29 See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.

Isaiah 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Romans 3:9-12 9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

James 3:2 2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

James 3:8 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

1 John 1:8 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

No man is able to change due to spiritual deadness. He cannot bring it about through his alleged libertarian free will. It requires a change of nature, which is the same thing as receiving spiritual life from God.

Job 14:4 4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.

Jeremiah 13:23 23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good
who are accustomed to do evil.

Matthew 7:16-18 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.

Matthew 12:33-37 3 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. 36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

John 6:44 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

1 Corinthians 2:14 14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

All men need to be born again, through a spiritual resurrection, because they are spiritually dead and condemned in Adam.

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

Romans 5:12-21 12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 2:1-10 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

All men have darkened minds and corrupted hearts, until they are born again.

Genesis 6:5 5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 8:21 And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth.

Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Jeremiah 17:9-10 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?
10 “I the Lord search the heart and test the mind,

Mark 7:21-23 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

John 3:19 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

Romans 8:7-8 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Ephesians 4:17-19 17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.

Ephesians 5:8 8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord

Titus 1:15 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

All men are in bondage to sin and Satan, until they are born again.

John 8:44 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him

Ephesians 2:1-3 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

2 Timothy 2:23-26 23 Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. 24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

1 John 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

1 John 5:19 19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.

Romans 6:20 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

Titus 3:3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

Questions

Can a person with the corrupted state of mind described in these verses respond to God?
Can a corpse, laying on a funeral home table, respond to verbal commands, and sit up, and begin to breathe again?
Do you understand the radical corruption of the entire creation, including our own natures, that occurred in the Fall?
Do you understand that mankind is represented by Adam due to their physical birth, and as a result, suffered the consequence of his sin?
Do you understand that redeemed mankind is represented by Jesus due to their spiritual birth, and as a result, enjoys the benefits of his obedience?

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

Observations

Understanding the Bible properly requires that one accept the fact that God is sovereign over all things, including man’s salvation.

Sinful man always wants to exalt himself, not God. If you read the Bible, cover to cover, you will see that God’s glory is his primary concern. He is concerned about his reputation and his glory. This concept, in Reformed theology, is called Soli Deo Gloria (God’s Glory Alone). It is one of the five Solas of the Protestant Reformation.

I believe that Reformed theology invokes a vitriolic response in some simply because they do have a lot of pride in their lives. They are not willing to accept that humans are clay, and God is the Potter.

Additionally, the free-willer position is the religion of the natural man. Due to his pride, and his autonomous spirit, he doesn’t want to acknowledge his complete dependence upon God.

If one does not accept the fact that all mankind was represented by Adam at the Fall, then they simply can’t understand the narrative (big picture) of Scripture. They do not understand how the creation harmony was destroyed at the Fall, because they reject core elements of the narrative.

By the way, all of the points I’ve brought up in regard to this topic are facts that should have been taught to the true believer by the Holy Spirit during their conversion. I am shocked by how many people deny them, and it makes me wonder if they have really delved into the Bible and been deeply converted through their understanding of the gospel and Scripture.

Part of conversion involves understanding our radical corruption, and the fact that our minds deceive us into thinking we are good people. To be honest, I wonder how many professing Christians are still dwelling in darkness because I find little real understanding of self-deception and sinfulness amongst non-Reformed believers.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 7, 2019

More resources:

The Five Points of Calvinism, David Steele

Gotquestions.org article on total depravity (radical corruption):

https://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html

Good audio sermon set on Reformed Theology by Brian Borgman:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=314101251359

Additionally, I would like to comment that there is a lot of hatred amongst a handful of individuals on this site for Reformed theology. Much of their propaganda is simply false, and has been repeated so often by various individuals in the professing Christian community that it is simply accepted as fact.

I am not very fond of the rabidly anti-Reformed crowd. I have a lot of friends who are not Reformed, and we get along fine. This is not a core doctrine, although I think it's important. However, it is hard for me to relate to the rabidly anti-Reformed lot.

To give you an example, remarks were made about Reformed theology being Satanic, and I was called, in essence, a fool for believing it (actually the guy called me Genius, but he did it in a sarcastic manner that insinuated I am a fool). Even a surface-level knowledge of Scripture should lead the guy to avoid approaching people this way.

calibob · Oct 7, 2019

UnitedWithChrist said:

A number of individuals have responded in a very derogatory manner toward Reformed theology.

I realize their attitude is a very common one within evangelical Christianity.

Among other things, Reformed theology focuses on the doctrines of grace. The doctrines of grace have been commonly referred to as TULIP.

Total depravity
Unconditional election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints

I don't exactly like the labels involved in the TULIP acronym. For example, I prefer the phrase "radical corruption" or "total inability".

The concept is this: man, in his natural state before salvation, is corrupted in all areas of his life due to the Fall. He is spiritually dead, in fact, and requires a spiritual resurrection in order to enter into a relationship with God. Therefore, in his natural state, he is totally helpless to do anything for himself in the real of spiritual life. He cannot cause himself to come to life again. Therefore, God must spiritually resurrect him to new life. This resurrection is called being "born again", or being "born from above".

Ephesians 2:1-10 is probably one of the best explanations of the gospel in this manner.

Ephesians 2:1-10 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

The gist is this: man, in his unsaved state, is spiritually dead and is unable to do anything for himself, just like a corpse laying on a table cannot do anything. Someone in the room might talk, but he wouldn't understand it. God raises the spiritually dead man so he can respond.

However, I don't want to get into the areas covered by the other four points yet. I only want to focus on total depravity or radical corruption.

I would like to present the Reformed definition of total depravity (radical corruption), and the free-willer response to it. Then, I will present Scriptures relating to the Reformed position. Finally, I will make some remarks in conclusion.

I plan on doing this for the other four doctrines of grace as well, in the future.

I am going to start a poll on whether the doctrine of total depravity is biblical. Please note that I"m not really concerned about whether this view is the most popular. Popular doctrines aren't always the true doctrine, and in this case I think some are very offended over the nature of the doctrines of grace, especially with all the anti-Reformed rhetoric that has been propagated within Christianity.

I am also attaching a document that summarizes the Scriptures I will post.

I don't accept much christian literature written after Revelations. I'm fond of Gen. William Booth the founder of the Salvation Army and Dr. Walter Martin founder of the Christian Research Institute. But Booth taught how to serve others and help others that may be in the streets. Dr. Martin wrote The Kingdom of the Cults. But I'd rather read the Bible than any Books about it. I'm Anabaptist.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 7, 2019

UnitedWithChrist said:

Using the term "Free-Willer" is not conducive to any reasonable discussion (since you have been objecting to some of the descriptions of TULIP by others).

Non-Reformed ( or better yet Biblicist) is exactly what it is. And as far as I'm concerned, the Calvinist doctrine of Total Depravity is a misinterpretation of the fallen state of mankind, which leads to a misinterpretation of the Gospel.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 8, 2019

calibob said:

I don't accept much christian literature written after Revelations. I'm fond of Gen. William Booth the founder of the Salvation Army and Dr. Walter Martin founder of the Christian Research Institute. But Booth taught how to serve others and help others that may be in the streets. Dr. Martin wrote The Kingdom of the Cults. But I'd rather read the Bible than any Books about it. I'm Anabaptist.

Mennonite?

calibob · Oct 8, 2019

UnitedWithChrist said:

Closer than anything else. If Friends (Quakers) practiced public adult baptism and shared meals as communion. I'd get behind them too.

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 12, 2019

Here's a sermon by Brian Borgman on this topic:

It is called Grace Needed: Total Depravity and is on SermonAudio if the link doesn't work:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1025071351432

UnitedWithChrist · Oct 12, 2019

I would suggest this entire series for a good exposure to Reformed theology.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....th&keyworddesc=Introduction+to+Reformed+Faith

It is a set of series called "Introduction to Reformed Faith" by Brian Borgman.

As I have said, this theology is really misrepresented on this site. If you want something authoritative, listen to it.

Personally, I consider free-willer theology to be garbage.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 12, 2019

UnitedWithChrist said:

Take this to a forum favored by the Reformed people. A little bit of poison is sufficient to kill anyone. One does not need a whole bottle of it. And you are promoting the poison of a FALSE GOSPEL. One that is accursed.

azamzimtoti · Oct 12, 2019

Only a totally depraved mind would come up with the idea of total depravity

Is total depravity (radical corruption) a biblical teaching?

Is the doctrine of total depravity (radical corruption) biblical?

Yes

No

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