3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists

By the way, folks, notice that Whispered is dumping tons of information into this thread. Obviously I cannot spend all my life responding to the claims, and I'm not going to do it.

They are typical claims against Reformed theology, and Reformed individuals have responses to these claims.

I would suggest reading Five Points of Calvinism Defended and Document by David Steele if you want to understand the topic better. It has tons of Scriptures supporting the position.

https://smile.amazon.com/Five-Point...lvinism+by+david+steele&qid=1570413197&sr=8-1

The fundamental issue, though, is how an unsaved person, with a stony and cold heart, can respond in faith and repentance? What has to happen for this to occur?

The answer is that God needs to give them a new heart.

In the free-will view, their claim is that you must reach a state of faith and repentance WITHOUT this new heart of flesh, and THEN you receive this new heart of flesh.

It is a nonsensical claim. I was raised believing this sort of nonsense, and I realize now how flawed and messed up their view is.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. (ESV)

I would be glad to talk to HONEST people one on one about these topics. Feel free to email me if you want.

I have TONS of other Scriptures to support the Reformed position, but I recommend the above book. He explains the background of the Reformed position in fairly easy language.

Reading your musings is aggravating because you are claiming things that Reformed people don't believe..for instance....no one claims that the elect are something special.

In fact, they believe God chooses foolish things so that he can glory in their salvation. If someone is one of the wise, noble, strong of this society, he would be less likely to choose them because he wants no one to be able to boast about their own inherent abilities in relation to salvation.

1 Corinthians 1 intimates this.

By the way, that's another issue with non-Reformed people. They simply DENY that God chooses or elects, when it is plain to see that he does. Either that, or they attempt to twist it around so that they claim God chooses them because they choose God, which in essence means that God doesn't choose, but they choose.

So, any mention of "election" or "choosing" is simply meaningless in their worldview. They can't even read the Bible with any level of comprehension due to their presuppositions.

Thank you.
I would certainly hope that those who choose to enter this thread do notice the sustaining resource links that I've added from time to time. And I did explain why I am doing this early on.

You see, people who are on the Net will sometimes search out religious forums so as to find information concerning the particular religion they may be interested in.
The Net provides an anonymous opportunity to do this when someone may be less inclined in such a pursuit off-line.

Because this particular community is dedicated to the faith in Christ and God almighty, those who may seek after understanding as to what it means to be in Christ, or , a Christian, I find it my duty when discussing a particular doctrine that falls under the banner of , Christian Denomination, to provide as much information as available to that end.

Calvinism turns Jesus passion on its ear. Calvinism is the Doctrine of a man, not at all able to be truly sustained by the teachings of Christ.
Calvinisms identity for its faithful, that of "The Elect of God", according to the doctrine of Calvinism itself makes Jesus' death on the cross unnecessary.
Because Calvinism teaches that God had predestined His Elect to be Saved even before Sin entered the world those persons would later inhabit.
Calvinism makes the individual's faith unnecessary in truth. Because God predestined those minority numbers who were born totally immoral, totally depraved, like the rest of the worlds people to be saved before He created the world. Those people would not need to actually hold faith in Jesus when God, according to Calvinism, predetermined to imbue His Elect with His grace whether or not they would accept it. That's why it is called Irresistible. God's will to bestow His grace upon those He identified as His Elect would be unable to resist, because God would overcome all barriers, which would include their Total Depravity, in order to save them against their own will because His will is Sovereign. And His Elect , by the purpose of His will, have no choice but to be saved. All according to the application of the TULIP principle.

Calvinism therefore is not in any way a reflection of the actual teachings of Jesus.
And it is my purpose in adding outside resource links that explain the failings of Calvinism in that regard so that those who are seeking after Christ will not be distracted by that which makes Christ's entire purpose on earth unnecessary.

Why do you blame God for what Adam did?

Adam is the one who rebelled against God. He was representing all of mankind in his decision.

I think that's part of the communication problem here. It's a failure to recognize the narrative of Scripture, which includes Creation, Fall, Rescue, and Restoration.

It's common that Christians don't consider how serious the Fall was, and the disastrous repercussions it had upon mankind.

Read Romans 5.

There always seems to be resident calvinists on most religious forums i have been a member of.. They seem to like being involved in forums.. I have debated calvinists on different forums for over 10 years.. Now i often just post a post stating why i do not agree with calvinism and don't get caught up in endless debates on the subject.. Sadly most calvinists cannot change their minds.. They seem to be locked into the T.U.L.I.P doctrines..

Such is life..

Calvinism, also called The Reformed Doctrine, cannot in all its formula, TULIP included, make sense of the crucifixion and still affirm its own tenets.

Why not? What's the issue?

Calvinism really just boils down to saying God is Sovereign.

There are 2 of the five point that I totally disagree with. So I will only address those two points. Limited atonement, run counter to so many scriptures that it's just not a matter of failed understanding. I think that the fallen state of man makes the will of a man predisposed to resist the grace of God, and that this resistance is the very essence of the problem. That some men will resist the grace of God unto the very end, and find himself condemned by his resistance.

reason i do it is because in calvinism everything is predestinated right? that means the fall was predestinated to take place. which is why i put that on God, rebellion fo satan on God. everything is God's fault in reformed doctrine, i know you will say thats misrepresentation, im not understand, but i have understood and its clear to me, God is the cause of everything. the baptist confession 1689 contradicts itself by saying God decreed all that come to pass but then two sentences later says there is no evil in God whatsoever, its all through secondary causes and things like that. but if you truly believe God micromanages everything and thats sovereignity, then it means God is indeed responsible for every evil thing under the sun, no matter what the reformed say, thats what their own documents teach. only reason they explain it away like that and make excuses is because they have to make all the bible verses about God being only good fit the confessions.

i got nothing against you personally. i just hate the reformed doctrine thats all. just like you hate free will doctrine and think its false and people 'worship free will'. so much for representing accurately?

i never misrepresent reformed theology i have read and heard all arguments i just disagree with their conclusions thats it. if they say God predestines everything but God is not evil, and i say no thats not true. its not misrepresenting, i just disagree with their illogical conclusions thats it.

Calvinism isn't for someone who wonders if they are a Christian. Calvinism isn't designed to bring people to Christ.


Calvinism is an explanation, to a SAVED individual, on HOW that Salvation occurred and why it occurred. It is an explanation on why YOU were saved and why perhaps someone else was not.

The bible says to work out your Salvation with fear and trembling. Calvinism is the end result of studying the scriptures and comparing it to the Salvation of God.


Most people who don't believe in Calvinism don't believe people are really even saved yet. Or they don't believe that the Lord Jesus has fulfilled what He said He would fulfill.

Calvinism really just boils down to saying God is Sovereign. There are a lot of people who don't like that. But not Saved People. Saved People are thrilled to find out that God is, in fact, Sovereign.

Even though we don't deserve to be Saved, God still saved us. Even though our work at righteousness fell short, God still Saved us. Even though we deserved punishment, God Has Mercy.

There are 2 of the five point that I totally disagree with. So I will only address those two points. Limited atonement, run counter to so many scriptures that it's just not a matter of failed understanding. I think that the fallen state of man makes the will of a man predisposed to resist the grace of God, and that this resistance is the very essence of the problem. That some men will resist the grace of God unto the very end, and find himself condemned by his resistance.

They are condemned by their dead resistance. Hearing God, as it is written is the gift. A man must be born again.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.John3: 18

Being dead in their trespasses and sin without a hope of a living God (no faith) .

But as many as the father has given to Son will come. No man can come unless the father gives them ears to hear and a new heart to believe Him not seen .

If he has begun the good work of salvation working in us to both will and do His good pleasure. . we will have the pleasure that he will finish it till the last day. (Philippians 1:6)

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Calvinism is said to be making a resurgence in America of late. I don't know about that (article), however, I do know it appears to be surging through BDF here.
Calvinism, also called The Reformed Doctrine, cannot in all its formula, TULIP included, make sense of the crucifixion and still affirm its own tenets.

The article below is intended for all people here. Those who may be seeking after Salvation in our Lord. And those who are Christian and to whom the Reformed message says are quite possibly deluding themselves when we think we are saved.
One would also wonder, how does a Calvinist know they are one of the Elect for certain? Because John Calvin said there is such a thing? And "you" are it?
At the end of this article there is an observation and that which led me to share the entire article here due to the truth within it and the reminder to all who hold God most dear. "If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace?"

3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
By Jeremy Myers



In my current series on Calvinism, I have had several Calvinists leave comments about their areas of disagreement with what I have written.
I fully expect and invite disagreement. Please … if you are a Calvinist and disagree with what I am writing, let me know, and present your views!
However, I have noticed a trend in the comments that have been left by Calvinists thus far. There seems to be three main tactics or approaches that Calvinists have used in their attempts to defend their ideas and disprove mine.
1. Name Calling
It always surprises me how quickly some Calvinists turn to name calling as a way to defend their ideas. If you are not a Calvinist and seek to teach your views, be prepared to be called a heretic, a reprobate, a mouthpiece of Satan, and a fool. Some Calvinists may simply say that you are stupid, ignorant, or spiritually blind.
When I was in grade-school, I never understood why some kids thought they could win arguments by calling other people names, and I still don’t understand it today.
Very rarely is there any proper place in serious theological discussion for cajoling, slander, vilification, and the mocking of others.
If you are a Calvinist and you believe that I am stupid, ignorant, and the mouthpiece of Satan because I am not a Calvinist, show it by the weight of your exegetical arguments; not by calling me silly names.
2. Scripture Quotations
Along with name calling, Calvinists seem to think that everybody would become a Calvinist if they would just “read their Bible.” I often find that when Calvinists disagree, they think they can settle the argument by telling the person to go “read their Bible.”
Of course, I find this tactic used by many various groups within Christianity. Most people seem to think that what they believe is exactly what the Bible teaches, and if people would read the Bible, they would come to the same beliefs.

What many Calvinists do not seem to grasp is that reading the Bible is one thing; understanding it is another. Even highly educated and well-respected scholars and Bible teachers disagree with each other about the meaning of the text.
Do I read and study the Bible? Of course! I have been reading and studying it for decades. In fact, it is exactly because of my reading and studying that I eventually abandoned Calvinism.
Often, along with inviting non-Calvinists to just “read the Bible,” Calvinists like to type out longs lists of Bible quotes which the Calvinists thinks proves and defends the Calvinistic system of theology.
Their approach goes like this:
In fact, one classic book on Calvinism (The Five Points of Calvinism) contains little else but pages upon pages of Bible quotations.
In a post from several years ago, I referred to this tactic as Shotgun Hermeneutics. Some people seem to think they can win theology debates by simply quoting a lot of Bible verses, as if the other person was not aware of those verses and had never read them in the Bible.
Usually, when Calvinists do this to me, I simply reply with a comment like this:
Of course, Calvinists think their understanding of Scripture is the only valid one, and part of this is because of their appeals to tradition and authority.
3. Appeals to Tradition and Authority
The final tactic that Calvinists often use to defend Calvinism is with appeals to tradition and authority. Usually, if you disagree with a Calvinist on the meaning of a particular Bible verse, rather than deal with the exegetical evidence that was prevented about the verse, they will say that your understanding is wrong, because it disagrees with what John Calvin, John Piper, or John MacArthur teaches (or some other Calvinist).
I have a book in my library where an extremely popular Calvinist in which he lays and defends the Calvinistic doctrines. When I first read it, I was a Calvinist, but I remember being extremely uncomfortable with how he defended his views. Rather than base his arguments on a detailed analysis of pertinent Scripture texts, he tended to quote St. Augustine (who predated Calvinism), John Calvin, and other prominent Calvinistic theologians.
There is nothing inherently wrong with pointing out that other Bible teachers and scholars agree with your views, but the trouble comes in when some people seem ignorant of the fact that there are many good and respectable Bible teachers and scholars who disagree.
Furthermore, I always find it interesting that Calvinists praise men like Martin Luther and John Calvin for seeking to reform the traditional teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, but then condemn those who want to reform the traditional teachings of the Calvinistic system of theology.
Anyway, even though you can quote a bunch of scholars, authors, and Bible teachers who agree with your perspective, this does not prove that your view is correct.
Main Problem: A Lack of Grace
The main irony or problem with lots of the disagreement that comes from Calvinists is that it lacks grace.
Usually, when a Calvinist engages in the 3 tactics listed above, it is done with a complete lack of grace. I find this most troubling. Why is it that Calvinists, who claim to teach ‘The Doctrines of Grace” are so ungracious when dealing with those who disagree?
If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace? I think so.