Real believers have a new identity in Christ. Embrace your new identity, and don't be labeled by accusers

This kind of belief will put people on a slippery slope. There is absolutely no biblical basis for claiming that addictions are more powerful than the working of the Holy Spirit within genuine believers. The new creature in Christ is also expected to walk in newness of life. Which means walking away from all addictions.

ROMANS 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [NOTE: ADDICTIONS ARE SIMPLY LUSTS]
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

No one should be encouraged believe that even though they are a new creature in Christ, they can justify their old addictions.

This kind of belief will put people on a slippery slope. There is absolutely no biblical basis for claiming that addictions are more powerful than the working of the Holy Spirit within genuine believers. The new creature in Christ is also expected to walk in newness of life. Which means walking away from all addictions.

No one should be encouraged believe that even though they are a new creature in Christ, they can justify their old addictions.

Walking away from our old addictions does not mean we walk away from the rest of humanity who still flounder in their potentially fatal addictions.

But we are not talking about the rest of humanity (with which I agree). We are talking about those who possess the gift of the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit.

I am attaching a discussion guide to this discussion which gives the Scriptural support for my main points. I won't refer to those Scriptures for the most part, because they are included in the discussion guide.

I used this discussion guide in a parachurch ministry I was involved with. This parachurch ministry dealt with a lot of addicts who professed Christianity.

Here's the basic thesis:

1. Believers are new creations in Christ. They are one with Him, joined in a legal and vital (life-giving) manner. They are joined in a spiritual sense.
2. This union with Christ defines their spiritual identity. Their identity is not defined by their behavior. Ontology (objective being which is their union with Christ) defines economy (their behavior), and not vice versa.
3. Economy (their behavior) needs to come in line with ontology (their being in union with Christ), but their economy does not define them.
4. Paul exhibited this understanding, particularly in Romans 6 and I Corinthians 6, but throughout his epistles.
5. Believers are obligated to "put on" Christ by behaving according to this identity, but the underlying foundation is their identity in Christ.
6. Christians should encourage one another to behave according to their identity in Christ.
7. Christians should never discourage a weaker brother dealing with a sin issue by claiming that their identity in Christ is subject to being withdrawn.
8. Inducing self-condemnation in a real believer displays an incredible ignorance and is damaging to their potential fruitfulness.

I operated in an environment where some of my fellow "teachers" were legalists and charismatics who would be more likely to claim that sin is a result of demonic possession, and the addicts were in need of deliverance, not solid biblical understanding. As a result, I was forced to study this topic of union with Christ, and associated identity in Christ, so I could help the addicts in my ministry with their problems.

Individuals being helped by this ministry were coming back, over and over again, with the same problems so I knew something was wrong.

The world handles things a different way. The world identifies the person by their behavior. Such-and-such is a drunk, a drug addict, homosexual, etcetera. He will never change. And if he manages to deal with that problem, he is still defined by it and is always subject to falling back into it. Then, he becomes the same drunk or drug addict or homosexual.

In fact, one major organization requires the alcoholic to proclaim his identity prior to the meetings.



He didn't say, either start behaving like Christ, or God is going to leave you. He said, in essence, Jesus lived the perfectly righteous life and suffered and died on the cross for you. He has given you a new identity. This includes righteousness, sonship, and an inheritance. Now, start living according to this new identity. Put on Jesus Christ. He is your new identity. The old man, in Adam, needs to die. Put him to death. I won't give up on you in the meantime, but you need to live according to this new identity and produce fruit through union with Jesus.

That is what Paul was about. He wasn't some legalistic, self-righteous professed Christian looking to accuse others or to threaten them with loss of salvation. He had a healthy sense of fear of God, but it didn't involve the legalism of some professing Christians today. He was convinced that once a person understood God's grace, that would change his behavior over time.

And, there are plenty of legalists who would love to drag you into self-condemnation and unfruitfulness. Beware of them. They may appear to be holy, but if they are not broken up about their own spiritual condition at times, I wouldn't trust them.

Know why? If someone doesn't have a proper understanding of God's grace, there's two possible directions they can go.

One is self condemnation. They are honest and realize they don't measure up to God's standards. This person will go through a cycle of realizing his shortcomings, then working hard (in the flesh) to deal with them, and falling again, and then trying to perform again, and doing pretty good for a while (which generates self-confidence) and then falling again, and feeling self condemned again.

I would trust that guy, if he was honest about his failures, but I would encourage him to understand union with Christ and identity in Christ better.

The other is the self righteous guy. He drag's God's standards down to a level he can achieve. I am not athletic but I have seen real athletes jumping hurdles. The self righteous guy jumps over three inch hurdles and claims he is a star athlete. He believes that he meets God's standards. He is fixated on the external, and not the internal desires of the heart, as well. He never realizes that he falls short of God's standards, and thus shouts at others that keeping the law (or whatever standards) isn't so hard. Well, his understanding of God's standards is so infantile that he actually thinks he is meeting them. Therefore, he is a miserable comforter for anyone who would be unwise enough to seek counsel from him.

I would not trust that guy. He isn't honest about his spiritual condition and is suppressing the knowledge of his sinfulness. He is living in darkness. I think God needs to humble that man and show him the reality of his spiritual condition.

The real balance is a man who understands union and identity in Christ. That's where it's at. This believer understands that he isn't meeting God's standards, but he has been joined with Jesus. This union defines his identity. He is loved by God because God's beloved son is now spiritually joined with him, like a man is joined with his wife, and the two become one. Not only that, but he produces fruit over the long term because of this union. Like sap flows through the vine into the branches, so does Jesus' likeness permeate the believer due to this union (see John 15).

This man doesn't have to blame his sins on demons and seek out demon deliverance. Nor does he have to dwell in self-condemnation, because there is no condemnation for those in Jesus (Romans 8:1). However, he knows he needs to put on Christ, like he puts on his clothing in the morning. There is the identity aspect of union with Christ, but then there is also the fact that the union changes us over time (see 2 Cor 3, especially the last few verses). And, this happens through God's transforming power, not by the flesh.

Anyways, these are the most important lessons I learned through parachurch ministry. To be honest, I didn't understand a lot of things until I started trying to serve others in this way. I am glad God gave me something worthwhile to do for a while, because I believe in trying to serve others, you end up learning yourself.

I hope this is worthwhile to someone. Understanding these things has been important to me.

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But we are not talking about the rest of humanity (with which I agree). We are talking about those who possess the gift of the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit.

It seems do me that people misunderstand words like drunkard and alcoholic as having the same meaning. They do not mean the same things! Choosing to get drunk is a willful act that often leads to the disease of alcoholism. Alcoholics can certainly choose to stop being drunkards but once the disease has progressed form acute drunkenness' to chronic alcoholism alcoholics can no longer safely drink again.

This is a baffling problem especially within a society that encourages the use of alcoholic beverages for celebrations like holiday festivities, sporting events, wedding receptions, birthdays even funeral receptions etc.

Identifying ones self as an alcoholic or addict is also humbling to us that can and do for the benefit of those that are still struggling against the illnesses. The substances trigger a phenomena of craving that have escaped the medical professionals, loved ones, preachers and judges for centuries. It was discovered by a Christian society called the Oxford Group that by admitting and identifying the most obvious symptom which is lack of ability to practice moderation. And by Not making room for it in our lives any more that the incomprehensible and pitiful demoralization of the diseases can be stopped. Permanently.

The process of identification goes back to Paul saying,"1 Corinthians 9:22 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

It's an admission that I am no better than you but I'm sober and you can be too! If you want to debate whether Alcoholism is a disease or not, please take it up with the AMA or APA. I am not a doctor. I believe the true reason why recovery attempts so often fail is the inability or unwillingness to be totally honest with ourselves about ourselves and making excuses for wanting a quick distraction or segway from what's really going on. That is; the inability to "let go and let God" help us deal with ourselves first!

Confession or testimony not only helps the speaker. I also and often unveils the eyes and unplugs the ears of the listener too.

In Matthew 26:41 I think speaks of a truth rather a person is a new creation or not and that is while in this world in this body, the flesh is weak but the spirit is willing. the human mind is truly weak even it’s ability to protect its neurotransmitters from being effected.

there’s some people who have stopped drinking alcohol clean and sober for many years yet still get the shakes from time to time, that is damage to the brain cause by alcohol abuse but few will suffer to that extreme but I’ve heard testimony’s of the shakes that don’t go away.

though I do agree most who fall off the wagon, do it like you said making excuses, most of the AA n NA call that stinking thinking

I didn’t like you bashing the AA and NA organization they help people to get clean, and surely God has lead people to attend them.

Isn't MacArthur still Dispensational, or did he switch from that too?

And you throw everyone else’s out the window, some of those who attend those meetings are Christians who are there to help others.

Yes that is what they do, they are powerless over their addiction, that’s one of the sickness of addictions thinking its all under control when it’s far from the truth.

that’s a bad prayer, that’s sad that you condemn a prayer.

I don't necessarily have an issue with them, just their theology of refusing to admit the believer is a new creation.

If they are dealing with heathens, I suppose they are about as good as any other carnal organization.

I'm not sure if this is the reason, but I suspect you have issues with me because I said I would not go to a three-time divorced individual for advice on marriage. If you are a previously divorced person, perhaps this is affecting your attitude toward me.

Anyways, I wouldn't go to a person who has been divorced, especially multiple times, for marital advice, and that's solid. An elder is to be a husband of one wife. So, God himself has set it forth as a standard. I realize there is grace and mercy for those who have failed in that area, though.

Addiction isn't a sickness. It's a sin. It is the sin of idolatry.

They are looking to some substance for their fulfillment, pleasure, purpose in life and serving it instead of God.

And, they are not powerless if they are a believer. If they are unbelievers then they are powerless.

By the way, here's a few articles on that topic.

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I haven’t heard or read that the theology of AA is refusing to admit in a new creation. got any info on that?

kind of odd to call them heathens when they are there to quite being heathens seems counterproductive.