Not By Works

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CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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POINT G .



IS A RED HERRING BECAUSE IT IGNORES and DISTRACTS FROM WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEING SAID. In this case, distracting from what certain people said by accusing them of denying what they did not deny.


POINT h.



Strawman- Misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to refute.
POINT G .



IS A RED HERRING BECAUSE IT IGNORES and DISTRACTS FROM WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEING SAID. In this case, distracting from what certain people said by accusing them of denying what they did not deny.


POINT h.



Strawman- Misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to refute.
Macabeus, @dcontroversal did not quote you at all nor mention you in the post he made with the points. That was a reply to my question to him. Since he did not mention you in the post, it is best not to assume he was talking about you.
 
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Macabeus, @dcontroversal did not quote you at all nor mention you in the post he made with the points. That was a reply to my question to him. Since he did not mention you in the post, it is best not to assume he was talking about you.
You don't realize it, perhaps, because you have not been following. But point h is DEFINITELY directed at me. Almost anyone who has followed the thread for at least a few months knows that. As far as the one I said was a red herring, it is true that DC pulls Romans 4:4 on almost every reply he makes to me, as if I don't believe Romans 4:4. I could probably count at least ten times when he used Romans 4:4 when nothing I said was denying Romans 4:4, That makes it either a red herring or a strawman, it could be defined as either one.

With that said, please review the following quotes, in particular what is in red, and let me know if you see anything that is different between them

So what.......you have still proved nothing except in your mind.......and I will say it again.....

1. A person can be saved for years without bearing fruit....<--the bible and nature teaches this truth
2. At what point does one stop being a son by birth...NEVER
3. Works are the result of the gift of faith and salvation....<----a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything

Get your facts straight...you are looking like a fool......
h. And.....another truth argued...SOME MAY TAKE YEARS TO PRODUCE BASED UPON THE LEVEL OF TEACHING AND OR APPLICATION OF THE WORD.....
do you see a difference in basic meaning between the two statements? Read them carefully and let me know.
 

jacob_g

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
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You don't realize it, perhaps, because you have not been following. But point h is DEFINITELY directed at me. Almost anyone who has followed the thread for at least a few months knows that. As far as the one I said was a red herring, it is true that DC pulls Romans 4:4 on almost every reply he makes to me, as if I don't believe Romans 4:4. I could probably count at least ten times when he used Romans 4:4 when nothing I said was denying Romans 4:4, That makes it either a red herring or a strawman, it could be defined as either one.

With that said, please review the following quotes and let me know if you see anything that is different between them
Why do you think anyone new on here will read 5447 pages...lol...

If you do not want to repeat yourself, when you can copy and past, why keep commenting.... why should I look you up?
 
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Why do you think anyone new on here will read 5447 pages...lol...

If you do not want to repeat yourself, when you can copy and past, why keep commenting.... why should I look you up?
Already been done. Several times tonight. Anyways, I said almost anyone. You don’t have to look anything up. I am posting to certain people who engage in certain types of bad behavior.
 
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You don't realize it, perhaps, because you have not been following. But point h is DEFINITELY directed at me. Almost anyone who has followed the thread for at least a few months knows that. As far as the one I said was a red herring, it is true that DC pulls Romans 4:4 on almost every reply he makes to me, as if I don't believe Romans 4:4. I could probably count at least ten times when he used Romans 4:4 when nothing I said was denying Romans 4:4, That makes it either a red herring or a strawman, it could be defined as either one.

With that said, please review the following quotes, in particular what is in red, and let me know if you see anything that is different between them





do you see a difference in basic meaning between the two statements? Read them carefully and let me know.
The red parts. Difference in the parts I highlighted in red
 
Jul 20, 2019
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(QUOTE)
REGENERATION

Special act of God in which the recipient is passive. God alone awakens the person spiritually through the power of His Holy Spirit. Both the OT and NT also speak of the renewing of the individual. In a technical sense the act of regeneration takes place at the moment of conversion as the individual is spiritually awakened.


The term “regeneration” is the Greek word palingenesia (used only in Matt. 19:28 of creation and Titus 3:5). The Titus text refers to the regeneration of the individual, “He saved us—not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit” (HCSB). The Bible expresses the concept in numerous places with other terms like born again, renewed, remade, and born of God. For instance, in John 3:3-8 Jesus tells Nicodemus that in order to enter the kingdom of God, he must be born again. This thought is echoed in 1 Pet. 1:23, “Since you have been born again—not of perishable seed but of imperishable—through the living and enduring word of God.” The Bible clearly teaches that man must undergo a spiritual re-creation in order to have a relationship with God or enter His kingdom.


Paul provides further explanation in Eph. 2:1: “You were dead in your trespasses and sins.” Clearly Paul does not mean physical death but instead is referring to man’s spiritual state. Sin has left man dead spiritually, unable to respond to God. However, regeneration reawakens or resurrects man’s spiritual capacity so that he can have relationship with God. Paul explained in Eph. 2:4-5, “Because of His great love that He had for us, [God] made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses” (HCSB). Regeneration gives man the ability to commune with God, thus making man “a new creation” (2 Cor. 5:17).


This same idea is expressed in the OT. For example, God told Israel in Ezek. 36:26, “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh” (NASB). This need for a new heart was expressed by the psalmist: “God, create a clean heart for me and renew a steadfast spirit within me” (Ps. 51:10 HCSB). Jeremiah 31:31-34 also speaks of God establishing a new covenant where His law will be written on men’s hearts. These verses clearly speak of a change in man’s heart resulting in an improved response to God and His will, which is reflective of the NT concept of regeneration.


Several church traditions, like the Roman Catholic, have associated the regenerative act with the baptism. However, the Bible clearly teaches that baptism is a testimony that regeneration has taken place and not a means to attain it. The Bible is clear that regeneration is brought about by the Holy Spirit alone (Titus 3:5; 1 Cor. 2:6-16).


Regeneration is the catalyst that allows the Christian to interact with his creator. It is the beginning step of an eternal walk with God. Regeneration allows the individual to have a relationship with God and thus stands at the beginning of the Christian life.


Scott Drumm


Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary. (END QUOTE)


(QUOTE)
Regeneration
Only found in Mat 19:28 and Tit 3:5. This word literally means a "new birth." The Greek word so rendered (palingenesia) is used by classical writers with reference to the changes produced by the return of spring. In Mat 19:28 the word is equivalent to the "restitution of all things" (Acts 3:21). In Tit 3:5 it denotes that change of heart elsewhere spoken of as a passing from death to life (1Jn 3:14); becoming a new creature in Christ Jesus (2Co 5:17); being born again (John 3:5); a renewal of the mind (Rom 12:2); a resurrection from the dead (Eph 2:6); a being quickened (Eph 2:1, 5).


This change is ascribed to the Holy Spirit. It originates not with man but with God (John 1:12, 13; 1Jn 2:29; 1Jn 5:1, 4).


As to the nature of the change, it consists in the implanting of a new principle or disposition in the soul; the impartation of spiritual life to those who are by nature "dead in trespasses and sins."


The necessity of such a change is emphatically affirmed in Scripture (John 3:3; Rom 7:18; Rom 8:7-9; 1Co 2:14; Eph 2:1; Eph 4:21-24).


Illustrated Bible Dictionary: And Treasury of Biblical History, Biography, Geography, Doctrine, and Literature. (END QUOTE)
As I have lived through this, and was chosen at a young age, I totally agree with the above . Its a gift given via the Holy Spirit to enable people to fulfil a role later in the world. We are redeemed by generosity, kindness, mercy, love and grace. No amount of saved kittens or puppies will get you the same gift.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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People are not going to like this... but whatever....
To call on the name of the Lord... call is a verb....
Believe in his heart... believe is a verb....
A verb is an action...

Why doe this not satisfy both arguments? Is there some kind of magical list "of works" that has to be done to count as works...
when we call on Jesus "save me".... is He not quick enough to respond!?!
Level 1 - This is where MOST of Christianity is.
  • We CALL (verb) upon the Lord ONE TIME.
  • Abraham BELIEVED (verb) God ONE TIME and it was counted to him as righteousness.
  • Those verbs are ONE TIME actions that brings salvation FOREVER.
  • We are saved at this point but haven't crucified our flesh.
  • We are still walking after the flesh, trying to please God through OUR works.

Level 2 - Way less people are here.
  • Our flesh has been CRUCIFIED with Christ.
  • We have entered into the Sabbath - The rest from our works.
  • But we have not entered into the kingdom of heaven that comes WITHOUT observation.
  • It is only a short journey from here to level 3.

Step 3 - There are only a handful of people in the ENTIRE WORLD that are here.
  • We have entered into the promised land, a land flowing with MILK and HONEY.
  • We have been born again by the INCORRUPTIBLE words of God, we can see and have entered into the kingdom of God.
  • God OPENS UP the bible for us, we can see things that FLESH children can not see.
  • The only thing we lack is the destruction of this body of death and receiving our new bodies.
  • And lastly, we are only waiting to meet our Lord face to face in eternity.
I want to help people get to level 3.
 
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So many immature people and posts on here.. Y'all need to grow up, let it go, and MOVE ON....

View attachment 204476
Hey, DC is the one who brought up something from 4-5 months ago. I wasn’t going to bring it up.

I won’t mention it again if he won’t...or if no one else mentions it. But if people are going to say I said
 
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As I have lived through this, and was chosen at a young age, I totally agree with the above . Its a gift given via the Holy Spirit to enable people to fulfil a role later in the world. We are redeemed by generosity, kindness, mercy, love and grace. No amount of saved kittens or puppies will get you the same gift.
Yep. Free gift of God. That was an excellent post by VCO
 
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Hey, DC is the one who brought up something from 4-5 months ago. I wasn’t going to bring it up.

I won’t mention it again if he won’t...or if no one else mentions it. But if people are going to say I said
Got cut off. If people are going to bring up 4-5 months ago, where I was repeatedly accused of saying things I didn’t say, I will respond. If they stop, I will not mention it.

DC was the one who brought it up and GB9 also brought it up recently. I didn’t bring the “a period of growth and maturity is required to bear anything” disagreement, DC did

Maybe he needs to move on from it
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Got cut off. If people are going to bring up 4-5 months ago, where I was repeatedly accused of saying things I didn’t say, I will respond. If they stop, I will not mention it.

DC was the one who brought it up and GB9 also brought it up recently. I didn’t bring the “a period of growth and maturity is required to bear anything” disagreement, DC did

Maybe he needs to move on from it

I understand that, and I understand that people get angry when they're misquoted or whatever.. BUT if these recently brought up posts are from several months ago, then it really just causes more confusion to even mention it in the first place because everyone tries to go back and find those posts..

Now, let's return to talking about how salvation is not by works.. Winky.png
 
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I understand that, and I understand that people get angry when they're misquoted or whatever.. BUT if these recently brought up posts are from several months ago, then it really just causes more confusion to even mention it in the first place because everyone tries to go back and find those posts..

Now, let's return to talking about how salvation is not by works.. View attachment 204479
Totally agree. 🙂 I wasn’t the one who brought up stuff from 4-5 months ago.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ok, I'll repeat it again lol.

DCON said "they are the train of the Lord and represent the wave offering given by JESUS along with himself ".

I can only interpret that one way, the dead babies were THE TRAIN of the Lord and represent the wave offering GIVEN BY JESUS along with JESUS himself.

He is saying that JESUS gave the wave offering to God.... the dead babies REPRESENT the wave offering.

What do you think he meant?
Your funny man,

People twist what others say so much its getting unbearable
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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dude....I got rebuked for calling a spade a spade...and if one is going ro lie about me and what I say on a Christian web site and then you embrace him over the truth....go join him hand in hand amd be guilty by association....I am sick of dishonest people running rough shod over the truth....do not engage me if you are going to stand with evil and or sin!
He quoted you bro, he gotchu there. Thats some WEEEIRD teaching that nobody is ever heard of. STRAIGHT UP

No dishonesty he showed the quote, hows that dishonest everyone can read the quote no matter how he "embellished" it. WHO EVEN KNOWS what the word embellished means. thats the real story here.

And I dont care how dishonest people are or how evil, I dont roll with snitches NOR snitching under NO circumstances thats how we do it, offline and online. Why'd you want him to get banned if you two agree on salvation you should be brothers instead of enemies.
Im fine with not engaging if you wish I can whip out the IGNORE function (instead of reporting and trying to get you banned), I dont deal with snitches, thats what we DO know. Im not in no cult of DC where I have to back up some weird teaching i dont believe in!

I hope you and KJV reconcile one of these days, you DO agree on the salvation part so you SHOULD. God bless you and hopefully you stop trying to get brothers banned on christian chat. thats :sick: he didnt even call you no names or nothing.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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The Abyss. We are told that he’ll was made for Satan and his angels. Satan, anti-Christ and the false prophet are the only ones in the lake until the GWTJ. Then the Ancient Of Days takes His place in court and after the trial those not written in the Book off Life are cast into the lake and it is sealed
WELCOME ABOARD!

Dont let the current discussion discourage you from joining in! We are all nice folks here at the end of the day.

WE WILL BE GETTING BACK TO TOPIC, surely, one of the days.

I agree with your comment THATS exactly how it goes.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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WELCOME ABOARD!

Dont let the current discussion discourage you from joining in! We are all nice folks here at the end of the day.

WE WILL BE GETTING BACK TO TOPIC, surely, one of the days.

I agree with your comment THATS exactly how it goes.
2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

What's your opinion of this verse?
God didn't spare the angels that sinned, but CAST (past tense).... The KJV says they were cast into hell, if it's not hell then where were they cast?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

What's your opinion of this verse?
God didn't spare the angels that sinned, but CAST (past tense).... The KJV says they were cast into hell, if it's not hell then where were they cast?
I believe whatever the greek or english word hell, tartarus is there, the following sentences explain clearly what place its talking about:

CHAINS OF DARKNESS, to be reserved unto judgment.

I take that to mean, they are in the abyss, sort of like in JAIL(hell), waiting to be sentenced, and the final destination is the LAKE OF FIRE.