Whats the real reason many churches are dying or plateaued?

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A

AmosMoses

New member
#1
May 27, 2019
15
18
3
#1
I suspect church growth experts will say the reason for plateaued or declining churches is due to ineffective preaching or bad music in the worship or an unwillingness to change or all of the above. The reasons may not be limited to these. I suspect however there may be a different reason people dont want to come to our churches. There will be some who will take exception to what I am about to say and I am going to get some flak but hey somebody has to point it. Shoot me if you will.
i think the reason people dont want to come to our churches is because of our attitudes. Attitudes are easy to pick up on. Its not that hard to tell if someone is really happy to see you or they are just pretending. There are in chats (not CC only) a multitude of people from across a multitude of walks of life and church backgrounds so its not just limited to one denomination or group. You might say chats are a microcosm of the universal church. If this be the case then we find this problem is not limited to one place or group.
Do you want to know why churches are dying? Look at Christian chat, again not just CC. If we treat people who come to our churches the way people are treated who come into chat, then no wonder no one wants to come. There is very little welcome. There are maybe one or at the most two people who say hello. Most of the time new people are ignored. If this is the church you attend, they would not come back.
People with different ideas are attacked not loved. How can we attack people into the kingdom? For example, if someone comes to chat with a Catholic background, they are attacked, (no I'm not Catholic). No one says you have to agree with them but Someone did say we have to love them.
Then there are those people who love to have the preeminence. They are the big shots and they want to call the shots. Along with these big shots are the little groupies that hang with them. We used to call these cliques. These want to control the conversation. And if they dont like you they will find a way to show you the door.
What makes this even worse is on chat we are not having to pretend we are loving and or spiritual. We can take off the mask and let it fly. We are not at our real church where people may see who we truly are. We are in a chat room and no one really knows us so we can be as mean as hell to others and be applauded by people with the same attitude. We can be rude and commanding and demanding. We do all this while simultaneously quoting Scripture and discussing the Bible. We think no one notices, but Someone does. Some will take offense to what I've written. I wonder what that says? Could our attitudes on chat reflect what is happening in real life? Obviously its not the only reason many are dying, but could it be lost people notice our attitudes and dont return?
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
#2
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
7,176
113
#2
Well, you make some very valid points. Yes, there are cliques. A protected wall of loyalty that forms due to time and hearts invested in one other. Yes, we can sometimes grow weary of welcoming others, showing hospitality as we are called.

We can all do better, that is for sure.

I think whenever I see, online or off, christian brethren not acting any different and sometimes even worse than the secular population, I quickly remind myself that we, individually and as a whole, will always need the love and mercy of our Lord and Savior.

All we can do is pray and then be different ourselves, not grow weary of doing what is right.

Not too long ago in a chat site, I was spending WAYYYY too much time online. I thought that all was good and was so thankful to my maker for the fellowship. I had come to the place in a time where I was really hurting, so to me it was a Godsend. Well, I found out the hard way that I was not as welcome as I thought I was. not by a long shot. I was so hurt and confused. I mean, I handled it very poorly. There I was 53 years old, reliving high school emotions.

Now, however, I am soooo thankful because though things will probably never change in that arena for whatever reason, I needed that wake up call because I was seeking man and their approval far more than God.

So again my Lord turned it into something good. So yes, we can do better in how we deal with ppl, in the assembly of them, online and off. I just think it starts one person at a time, caring enough about our Lord and that which belongs to Him, regardless the return or how anyone else acts, just keep our hearts and minds on the One it is all about.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#3
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#3
When you say 'our church' thats the attitude there...its 'our church' as if there's an 'us and them. '

Well think about it its Jesus church actually. He is our first love. If we are elevating ourselves, or our own names or denoms above our saviour, then nobody will come.

Im not going to someone else's church...I want to go to a church where Christ is present and where He is the head.
 
A

AmosMoses

New member
#4
May 27, 2019
15
18
3
#4
Lanolin said:
When you say 'our church' thats the attitude there...its 'our church' as if there's an 'us and them. '

Well think about it its Jesus church actually. He is our first love. If we are elevating ourselves, or our own names or denoms above our saviour, then nobody will come.

Im not going to someone else's church...I want to go to a church where Christ is present and where He is the head.
Click to expand...



Of course it His church. Ours is used only in the sense of 'the churches we attend.' Although there are some people who think it actually belongs to them because grandpappy was there when the first pastor was fired.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#5
#5
Hi Amos I just wanted to say there is a world of difference between actual physical
church and a website like CC.

Main reasons why people go to church, to have fellowship and feel part of
something real on a face to face basis and be supported. For some that’s enough
especially if they are not born again, they attend more for the social aspect.
For others who really christians the other main reason is to have fellowship with God.
If either or both factors are failing for a person, they stop going.

On a website forum, it’s totally different, it’s usually to find like minded people
but that can be hit and miss. Websites also don’t have the same accountability as
a church. If you want to enjoy fellowship on a website, you have to be prepared
to take the good with the bad and exercise wisdom, choose your friends very carefully.
On a website setting you don’t even know if the person you are replying to is
genuinely a man or a woman!

Whereas in Church face to face setting, people expect that what they see is what
they get, expectations are much higher and people won’t tolerate the bad at all.
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
#6
Sep 17, 2018
4,056
3,170
113
#6
Churches stopped teaching people to be witnesses and started telling them to invite their unsaved. All to boost numbers.
So churches began having more and more unsaved and the messages began becoming weekly alter calls with no meat.
The Christians interested in learning abandoned their old churches to find the few that still taught Christians, leaving most churches to be overrun by unsaved or newly saved. And nothing has been taught to them. So they never grow and bring in their old habits and attitudes.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#7
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#7
AmosMoses said:
Of course it His church. Ours is used only in the sense of 'the churches we attend.' Although there are some people who think it actually belongs to them because grandpappy was there when the first pastor was fired.
Click to expand...
Yep thats some of the attitudes I've come across esp with older folk, theyve been there for donkeys years and resent newcomers. Their own children dont even attend cos they dont relate to them.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#8
Aug 13, 2014
27,233
9,296
113
#8
All I know is, AmosMoses you should visit my church some time. :cool: I've heard of churches like what you describe, but I never go to those churches.
 
S

Shekinahglory

Active member
#9
Aug 29, 2019
157
62
28
#9
AmosMoses said:
I suspect church growth experts will say the reason for plateaued or declining churches is due to ineffective preaching or bad music in the worship or an unwillingness to change or all of the above. The reasons may not be limited to these. I suspect however there may be a different reason people dont want to come to our churches. There will be some who will take exception to what I am about to say and I am going to get some flak but hey somebody has to point it. Shoot me if you will.
i think the reason people dont want to come to our churches is because of our attitudes. Attitudes are easy to pick up on. Its not that hard to tell if someone is really happy to see you or they are just pretending. There are in chats (not CC only) a multitude of people from across a multitude of walks of life and church backgrounds so its not just limited to one denomination or group. You might say chats are a microcosm of the universal church. If this be the case then we find this problem is not limited to one place or group.
Do you want to know why churches are dying? Look at Christian chat, again not just CC. If we treat people who come to our churches the way people are treated who come into chat, then no wonder no one wants to come. There is very little welcome. There are maybe one or at the most two people who say hello. Most of the time new people are ignored. If this is the church you attend, they would not come back.
People with different ideas are attacked not loved. How can we attack people into the kingdom? For example, if someone comes to chat with a Catholic background, they are attacked, (no I'm not Catholic). No one says you have to agree with them but Someone did say we have to love them.
Then there are those people who love to have the preeminence. They are the big shots and they want to call the shots. Along with these big shots are the little groupies that hang with them. We used to call these cliques. These want to control the conversation. And if they dont like you they will find a way to show you the door.
What makes this even worse is on chat we are not having to pretend we are loving and or spiritual. We can take off the mask and let it fly. We are not at our real church where people may see who we truly are. We are in a chat room and no one really knows us so we can be as mean as hell to others and be applauded by people with the same attitude. We can be rude and commanding and demanding. We do all this while simultaneously quoting Scripture and discussing the Bible. We think no one notices, but Someone does. Some will take offense to what I've written. I wonder what that says? Could our attitudes on chat reflect what is happening in real life? Obviously its not the only reason many are dying, but could it be lost people notice our attitudes and dont return?
Click to expand...
 
H

Hamarr

Guest
#10
#10
Agreed on churches not necessarily having a lot of meat. Especially some of the bigger churches I have been to in this area. There seems to be far more emphasis on driving church attendance than there is on things like discipleship. A lot of sermons seem to get watered down as well. Personally, I want to have a more substantive sermon and want to be challenged.

"Why Men Hate Going To Church" does have a lot of good discussion about this, as well. A lot of it is focused on appealing to guys, but the author does mention some other issues. Primarily when churches start focusing on managing disagreement and keeping the peace that tends to create a culture that is unwecolming to others. The author does seem to favor those giant churches that have thousands of members. I'm not sure that's the best option, either.
 
S

Shekinahglory

Active member
#11
Aug 29, 2019
157
62
28
#11
Hamarr said:
Agreed on churches not necessarily having a lot of meat. Especially some of the bigger churches I have been to in this area. There seems to be far more emphasis on driving church attendance than there is on things like discipleship. A lot of sermons seem to get watered down as well. Personally, I want to have a more substantive sermon and want to be challenged.

"Why Men Hate Going To Church" does have a lot of good discussion about this, as well. A lot of it is focused on appealing to guys, but the author does mention some other issues. Primarily when churches start focusing on managing disagreement and keeping the peace that tends to create a culture that is unwecolming to others. The author does seem to favor those giant churches that have thousands of members. I'm not sure that's the best option, either.
Click to expand...
Hamarr said:
Agreed on churches not necessarily having a lot of meat. Especially some of the bigger churches I have been to in this area. There seems to be far more emphasis on driving church attendance than there is on things like discipleship. A lot of sermons seem to get watered down as well. Personally, I want to have a more substantive sermon and want to be challenged.

"Why Men Hate Going To Church" does have a lot of good discussion about this, as well. A lot of it is focused on appealing to guys, but the author does mention some other issues. Primarily when churches start focusing on managing disagreement and keeping the peace that tends to create a culture that is unwecolming to others. The author does seem to favor those giant churches that have thousands of members. I'm not sure that's the best option, either.[/QUOTE

]Like to get your idea on this. Is church meant for the unbelievers? Is church not meant for real teaching, real worship and other things like Lord's Supper? Should churcs bring unbelievers, seekers the lost into something geared to make the Lord known but on a level believers should not need to hear. I think most of what is watered down is because the Pastor is trying to meet both the unchurched and the believing Body Of Christ with the same message. There are some good programs out there for bringing these folks into the church knowing our Lord and a few folks whop have been with them as the went through the assimilation.
Click to expand...
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#12
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
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#12
Managing Expectations:

If Christians, who are fallen and living in an increasingly worsening culture, are expected to somehow be completely unaffected by either their fallenness or the worsening culture they live in... that's an unreasonable expectation.

Rats:
If you rescue one set of rats from a sewer, and another set of rats from a nice sterile laboratory... which set of rats do you think is going to have more mites, and dirt, and disease?

I don't think my culture is a nice sterile laboratory.

.
 
S

Shekinahglory

Active member
#13
Aug 29, 2019
157
62
28
#13
maxwel said:
Managing Expectations:

If Christians, who are fallen and living in an increasingly worsening culture, are expected to somehow be completely unaffected by either their fallenness or the worsening culture they live in... that's an unreasonable expectation.

Rats:
If you rescue one set of rats from a sewer, and another set of rats from a nice sterile laboratory... which set of rats do you think is going to have more problems and diseases?

I don't think my culture is a nice sterile laboratory.

.
Click to expand...
He didn't send us out in a nice sterile culture. The world He lived in and the disciples were sent out ionto had about half the known population in slavery, cities so bad your life was in danger to venture out and in the end it was a lot likw our own world. Yes it is hard and some times impossible but He didn't ask us to be successful He just asked us to go and make learners of all men of the Good News of Jesus Christ. That was the world all those fine teachings came out of I wonder if He would have expected us to act in that same manner.

Don't get me wrong. Paul smack the High Priest and immediately apologized. There can be a lot of high priest folks we want to smack but He says you are My Body and what you do or don't do is hung around my neck.
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#14
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
#14
Shekinahglory said:
He didn't send us out in a nice sterile culture. The world He lived in and the disciples were sent out ionto had about half the known population in slavery, cities so bad your life was in danger to venture out and in the end it was a lot likw our own world. Yes it is hard and some times impossible but He didn't ask us to be successful He just asked us to go and make learners of all men of the Good News of Jesus Christ. That was the world all those fine teachings came out of I wonder if He would have expected us to act in that same manner.

Don't get me wrong. Paul smack the High Priest and immediately apologized. There can be a lot of high priest folks we want to smack but He says you are My Body and what you do or don't do is hung around my neck.
Click to expand...

I think Christians whine too much.


.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#15
Mar 13, 2014
42,569
17,032
113
69
Tennessee
#15
AmosMoses said:
Do you want to know why churches are dying? Look at Christian chat, again not just CC. If we treat people who come to our churches the way people are treated who come into chat, then no wonder no one wants to come. There is very little welcome. There are maybe one or at the most two people who say hello. Most of the time new people are ignored. If this is the church you attend, they would not come back.
Click to expand...
I don't believe at all that new members are ignored. It does help a lot though to post more than just a couple posts in an introductory thread or rarely or infrequently posts in other threads. Any member that makes an attempt to integrate into the community will certainly not be ignored.

In most introductory threads that I have posted in there seems to be an ample and warm welcome unless the new member simply joined to stir up trouble by being a troll. Yes, those might not get the welcome they expect but perhaps the one that they deserve.

Not at all sure how you can compare this site to an established church outside of this site. This site is more like the coffee and donut fellowship that takes place after some church services but is not an actual church service in itself, though there are a few that consider this their church home. Jesus did say that where two or three are gathered in His name that He is in the midst of them. That can certainly be true in some instances in Christian Chat.
 
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