Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

Ok well thanks.

You were just trying to until I pointed out how silly it was.



You're sure not a very good legalist.

The Levitical law was essential to Moses Law. Without Moses Law there was no need for any Levitical law.



LOL.

I suppose you got me on that one....

I had a great his conversation with PS a few years ago, or one similar to it, about his views about these things. It didn't go anywhere.

It is similar to the view of a kind of famous Armstrongite heretic I contested over musical instruments. He actually argued that David was evil, having introduced the wickedness of music in temple worship, that the Psalms and much of rhe rest of the OT was corrupt and should be thrown out ((according to however he determined what should be considered right)). Like, he boldface said all that, extrapolating from a verse ((can't remember the reference offhand)) that mentions 'the lying pen of the scribes' - - saying that David had altered the scriptures to justify himself and that no one has the true Torah anymore. Of course I expect he was planning to rewrite it himself.

Just to say, some people, even when you show them extremely clearly how nuts their position is, will not abandon it.

At least the Armstrongite dude was consistent, because what scripture clearly contradicted him, he didn't try to pervert, he just wanted to throw out altogether. Most people just gloss over the things in the Bible that show they are wrong about something, but he recognized it as such and took the 'escape route' of arguing that he could discard bits of the Bible however it suited him in order to be able to justify himself saying ((what's left of)) the Bible ((after he's done editing it)) supports his view.

Isn't it crazy how ridiculous man can become in his vanity? And to that man, he considered himself the only one sane.

Not dissimilar to people who argue that the Christian is under the Law of the Sinai covenant, and then proceed to selectively delete jots and tittles of that law in order to keep their view looking like it's 'Biblical'

Lol


((poke poke))

Lol I was waiting for it.

No but it's true. We see what we want to see much too often, even beyond topics in the scriptures.

It's a fatal flaw of man.

Did I? Or did I give an example of a King operating in his sovereignty? You filled that strawmen with fluff.


Tiz cuz I ain't one lol.

The problem with arguing with you Grandpa is the energy it takes to correct errors in claims before making counter-points.

Which was given first? The levitical law or the Commandments? Which was sealed in the blood of the covenant?




Lol

So you saw that huh?

No, he clearly states he does not need to repent, just ask forgiveness. Then he tried to back up his contention that repentance is unnecessary by saying "God knows my heart"

We have all been through this with him before. He is potentially, likely dealing with unrepentant hence unforgiven sin.

Easy place to slip into. We must all seek deep meaningful repentance for any sin that has crept in.

SG

Are you living under the law or grace?

Romans 4:16 So people get what God promised by having faith. This happens so that the promise can be a free gift. And if the promise is a free gift, then all of Abraham’s people will get that promise. The promise is not just for those who live under the Law of Moses. It is for all who live with faith as Abraham did. He is the father of us all.

Galatians 2:19 It was the law itself that caused me to end my life under the law. I died to the law so that I could live for God. I have been nailed to the cross with Christ.

Galatians 3:10 But people who depend on following the law to make them right are under a curse. As the Scriptures say, “They must do everything that is written in the law. If they do not always obey, they are under a curse.”

Galatians 5:18 But if you let the Spirit lead you, you are not under law. See Gal 5, II Peter 1 and Romans 8

Hebrews 7:11The people were given the law under the system of priests from the tribe of Levi. But no one could be made spiritually perfect through that system of priests. So there was a need for another priest to come. I mean a priest like Melchizedek, not Aaron.

Are you Jewish or part of one of the tribes of Israel?

Leviticus 19 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
19 And the Lord spoke unto Moses, saying,

2 “Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them: ‘Ye shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.

3 Ye shall fear every man his mother and his father, and keep My Sabbaths: I am the Lord your God.

Exodus 20 New International Version (NIV)
The Ten Commandments
20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Deuteronomy 5 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
5 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

4 The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire

5 (I stood between the Lord and you at that time to show you the word of the Lord, for ye were afraid by reason of the fire and went not up into the mount), saying:

6 “‘I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

7 “‘Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth.

9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me,

10 and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

11 “‘Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.

12 “‘Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee.

13 Six days thou shalt labor and do all thy work,

Short Answer, Galatians 5:18 But if you let the Spirit lead you, you are not under law. See Gal 5, II Peter 1 and Romans 8

14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: In it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates, that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Galatians 5:18 But if you let the Spirit lead you, you are not under law. See Gal 5, II Peter 1 and Romans 8

So what as Christians we are not under the law because we live by the Holy Spirit in us.

All I would like to happen is for people to remember the name of the "Mighty God, the Everlasting Father," who will one day sit on the throne of David, and not to be surprised when they find out His name is not Yahweh or YHWH.

The real questions are,

Are you living under the law or grace? Are you walking in the Spirit? Are you daily asking to be fill with the Holy Spirit?

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you: Did ye receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 5:18 But if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Luke 2:40 And the Child grew and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon Him.

Its from you chopping up the discussion into several different points and not focusing on one at a time.

Most of the different points you chop up you're wrong about. But you just keep going assuming you are correct.


I suppose it wouldn't matter much. I don't think we really agree on very much that the scripture says.

Since it troubles you I have no problem switching to "Our Heavenly Father" instead of YHWH.

The God of Israel was the great I Am. That Holy Spirit that led Moses unto the region of Pharaoh so as to set God's people free. That God was Jesus who stated many times in the New Testament that he is, I Am.
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life." Book of John 8:12
"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."Book of John 10:9

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Book of John 14:6

God the Father is the Israelite's only Savior.
“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may consider and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before Me, no god was formed, and after Me none will come. 11 I, yes I, am the LORD, and there is no Savior but Me. 12 I alone decreed and saved and proclaimed—I, and not some foreign god among you. So you are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “that I am God. " The Book of Isaiah 43:10

I think you misunderstand what Jesus meant when he condemned the scribes and the pharisee's that sought to have him killed.

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelite's: I AM has sent me to you.’”
Book of Exodus 3:14

God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.” Book of Exodus 3:15


Holman Bible Dictionary
Yhwh


God's name in Hebrew known by the technical term “Tetragrammaton” (Greek, meaning four letters), these are the four consonants which make up the divine name (Exodus 3:15 ; found more than 6,000 times in the Old Testament). The written Hebrew language did not include vowels, only the consonants were used; thus readers supplied the vowels as they read (this is true even today in Hebrew newspapers). Reverence for the divine name led to the practice of avoiding its use lest one run afoul of Commandments such as Exodus 20:7 or Leviticus 24:16 . In time it was thought that the divine name was too holy to pronounce at all. Thus the practice arose of using the word Adonai : “Lord.” Many translations of the Bible followed this practice. In most English translations YHWH is recognizable where the word LORD appears in all caps. See God ; I Am ; Jehovah ; Lord .

In the course of the centuries the actual pronunciation of YHWH was lost. In the Middle Ages Jewish scholars developed a system of symbols placed under and beside the consonants to indicate the vowels. YHWH appeared with the vowels from “Adonai” as a device to remind them to say “Adonai” in their reading of the text. A latinized form of this was pronounced “Jehovah,” but it was actually not a real word at all. From the study of the structure of the Hebrew language most scholars today believe that YHWH was probably pronounced Yahweh (Yah' weh ).

I would agree. It is a Christian's duty to teach all who are thirsty for the word the truth of God.
This includes confronting and condemning those attempts to demean the word through the vehicle and advice of human prejudices.


Holman Bible Dictionary
Yhwh


God's name in Hebrew known by the technical term “Tetragrammaton” (Greek, meaning four letters), these are the four consonants which make up the divine name (Exodus 3:15 ; found more than 6,000 times in the Old Testament). The written Hebrew language did not include vowels, only the consonants were used; thus readers supplied the vowels as they read (this is true even today in Hebrew newspapers). Reverence for the divine name led to the practice of avoiding its use lest one run afoul of Commandments such as Exodus 20:7 or Leviticus 24:16 . In time it was thought that the divine name was too holy to pronounce at all. Thus the practice arose of using the word Adonai : “Lord.” Many translations of the Bible followed this practice. In most English translations YHWH is recognizable where the word LORD appears in all caps. See God ; I Am ; Jehovah ; Lord .

In the course of the centuries the actual pronunciation of YHWH was lost. In the Middle Ages Jewish scholars developed a system of symbols placed under and beside the consonants to indicate the vowels. YHWH appeared with the vowels from “Adonai” as a device to remind them to say “Adonai” in their reading of the text. A latinized form of this was pronounced “Jehovah,” but it was actually not a real word at all. From the study of the structure of the Hebrew language most scholars today believe that YHWH was probably pronounced Yahweh (Yah' weh ).
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/y/yhwh.html

“But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.’ “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. Matthew 25:12-13
(ref: 1Corinthians 8:1-3, Matthew 7:21-23, 1 John 2;3-6, Revelations 3:1-6)

The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

“His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

“His master replied, ‘You WICKED, LAZY SERVANT! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ Matthew 25:14-30

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matthew 25:31-46

The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ Matthew 13:10-15

Confess Jesus as your Lord and Walk in Love.

God bless.

I try to follow a logical train of though point by point to a conclusion.

Ok let's take one. Which point do you want to focus on? I won't move on from it until we agree to. But at the same time I'd hope you will remain on the same point also.

Copied froma places on the internet that I lost
Paraphrased


Torah "to teach or instruct" Divine or Human.
Through the Law God shows His interest in all aspects of man's life. Motivated by love God instructs his people in the ways of Wisdom and knowledge. Gods law is given for our good, its regulations, protection, prosperity.

The Law reveals' the mind of God. His Will in His commandment and His commandment is His Law. Law is divine, perfect the Supreme Law of the entire earth. Universal to all areas of life and to every living souls.

The law contains ceremonial truths, moral truths, dietary truths. Speaks of mans duty toward God and man's duty toward fellow man.

The law addresses, philosophy, psychology, biology, physics, all other sciences, economics, ecology, Theology, culture, politics, military relations, international and domestic. family life, church life, business, criminal and civil law and every aspect of life thinkable. God regulates life by HIS PERFECT LAW.

New Testament word for Law is Nomos. Theonomic Theo=God - Nomos=Law. New Testament just as much Gods Law, as Torah

God is law giver. His Word is His Law, hence every word that proceeds from Him is law.

The new testament explains the old, new contained in old, old acts as cases of applied jurisprudence

When you study both Old and New you find New is simply an augmentation of what is already containd in the old.

Throw out law throw out God.

The old Covenant shows people its NEED for God, The new Covenant shows how to fulfill the need

New Covenant spiritual, and founded on obedience of the heart and fulfilling Gods law not only to the letter but also the spiritual intent.


@biblestudy
The New Covenant promises spiritual blessings (John 3:16, Hebrews 8:6, 9:15, Romans 8, Luke 18:29 - 30), such as eternal life full of love and glory for those who are obedient. Additionally, unlike the Old Covenant, the new one promises eternal death to those who knowingly reject submitting to the Father.

The Old Covenant, unlike the New (see our article on the Jerusalem Conference) required physical circumcision (Genesis 17:9, Exodus 12:48, John 7:22) and people under it were not (with a few exceptions) given God's Spirit (Romans 7:6, Hebrews 8:7 - 9, Matthew 5:21 - 45).

The New Covenant, in contrast to the Old, requires circumcision (repentance) of the heart (Acts 2:38, 3:19, Romans 2:25 - 29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11 - 13) and the Holy Spirit is made freely available to believers (Matthew 5:21 - 48, Romans 7:6, Galatians 2:20, Hebrews 8:10 - 12).

Under the Old Covenant system, physical works of law such as animal sacrifices were required (Leviticus 1 - 7). These sacrifices were made to justify a person but only to an earthly tabernacle (Hebrews 5:1 - 3, 9:1 - 13). A human High Priest served in the tabernacle as an intercessor between God and man (Hebrews 8:3 - 5, Exodus 28:1).
Under the New Covenant, Jesus' sacrifice, the fruits of God's spirit and good works are required (Hebrews 9:10, 10:12, 13:15, Galatians 5:22 - 24, Ephesians 2:10, Romans 12:1 - 2, Matthew 19:17, Mark 15:15 - 18).

Christ's sacrifice, in God's heavenly temple, forgives and justifies those who repent and are baptized (Hebrews 7:25 - 27, 9:23 - 28 Acts 11:18, Galatians 2:20, Romans 3:24 - 25). Jesus continually serves as man's spiritual High Priest and intercessor (Hebrews 4:14 - 16, 5:1 - 9, 7:17, Hebrews 8:1 - 2, 9:11).

Under the Old Covenant, if the letter of the law was obeyed, a person could access God through an earth-based tabernacle (Hebrews 9:13, Galatians 3:12, Leviticus 18:5, 2 Corinthians 3:16). No direct access to him was available or offered (Hebrews 9:6 - 8, 10:19).


The New Covenant offered by Christ, however, unlike the Old Covenant, gives those who obey one-on-one access to the Father through him (John 4:23 - 24, 16:23 - 27, Hebrews 6:20, 10:23, Romans 8:9 - 39, Ephesians 2:18 - 22, 2 Corinthians 3:6). This means that believers can talk to him at any time no matter where they are (Matthew 27:51, Hebrews 4:14 - 16, Ephesians 7:25 - 27, John 16, Galatians 4:6 - 7, Romans 8:15, Ephesians 2:18).

Lastly, those who were in the Old Covenant agreement could not have their consciences made clean or perfect before God in heaven (Hebrews 9:9, 10:4, 11). In the New Covenant made possible through Jesus' blood, however, a believer's sins can be spiritually forgiven. The Holy Spirit within them is able to purge their consciences and make them wholly acceptable to the Father (Hebrews 10:14 - 17, 2Corinthians 3:9, Colossians 1:27, Matthew 5:48, etc.).

God
The Law
Signs and Symbols
Prayer and Blessings
The poor and unfortunate
Treatment of Gentiles
Marriage, Divorce and Family
Forbidden Sexual Relations
Times and Seasons
Dietary Laws
usiness Practices
Employees, Servants and Slaves
Vows, Oaths and Swearing
The Sabbatical and Jubilee Years
The Court and Judicial Procedure
Injuries and Damages
Property and Property Rights
Criminal Laws
Punishment and Restitution
Prophecy
Agriculture and Animal Husbandry
Clothing
The Firstborn
High Priest, Priests and Levites
Tithes, Taxes, and T'rumah
The Temple, the Sanctuary and Sacred Objects
Sacrifices and Offerings
Ritual Purity and Impurity
Lepers and Leprosy
The King
Nazarites
Wars

Ehyeh asher Ehyeh, I AM THAT I AM
It's is locked in several times in the acrostics, the famed Tetragammaton of Ester, YeHoVaH, YHWH, and once EHYH, I AM.

Divine Names and Titles

I ELOHIM 1st occurrence connects with creation - essential meaning Creator of all things. His relation to mankind as His creatures.
Elohim is God, the Son, the living "Word".

II JEHOVAH same God in covenant relationship to those whom He has created. Jehovah means the Eternal, the Immutable One. He Who WAS and IS and IS TO COME.. Divine definition given in Gen 21:33 God of Israel, God of those redeemed, and are thus now "in Christ" We can say My God, but not My Jehovah because My Jehovah is My God.

THE JEHOVAH TITLES

JEHOVAH- JIREH Jehovah WILL SEE, OR PROVIDE GEN 22:14
JEHOVAH-ROPHEKA Jehovah that healeth thee. Ex 15:26
JEHOVAH -NISSI Jehovah my banner Ex 17:15
JEHOVAH-McKADDISHKEM Jehovah that doth sanctify you Ex 31.13
JEHOVAH-SHALOM Jehovah {send} peace Judg 6:24
JEHOVAH -ZeBA OTH Jehovah of hosts. 1 Sam 1:3
JEHOVAH-ZIDKENU Jehovah our righteousness Jer 23.6
JEHOVAH-SHAMMAH Jehovah is there Ezek 48:35
JEHOVAH-ELYON Jehovah most high Ps 7:17
JEHOVAH-RO'I Jehovah my Shepherd Ps 23:1

III JAH Jehovah in special sense having BECOME our Salvation Who is, was, and is to come

IV EL the Almighty, El is "God as Elohim is, but El is God the Omnipotent.

V ELOAH Elohim, Who is to be worshipped. Eloah is God in connection with rather than His power. Eloah is God who wills and orders all and Who is to be the on object of the worship of His people.

VI ELYON with El, in Gen 14 is rendered "most high God" It is EL and ELOHIM not as the powerful Creator, but as "the possessor of heaven and earth" Name is associated With Christ as the Son of "the Highest" The possessor of earth Who divides the nations 'their inheritance". over all the earth

VII SHADDAI the ALMIGHTY God (El) , not as the source of strength but of grace; not as Creator, but as the Giver. All bountiful. Power to supply.

VIII ADON is one of three titles (ADON, ADONAI, ADONIM) WITH God as over-lord

ADON is the Lord as Ruler in the earth
ADONAI is the Lord in His relation to the earth
ADONIM the plural of Adon, never used of man The Lord who rules His own.
Adon over-lord
Adonai owner
Adonim blesser