Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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did you read Romans yet?
these blow up Josh's 'oh under the law is just an idiom' nonsense.
do i need to go on or are you literate?
am i being harsh? yes i'm being direct. whoever hates correction is stupid, and the Lord chastens those He loves.
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
(Romans 2:12)
(Romans 2:12)
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
(Romans 3:19)
these blow up Josh's 'oh under the law is just an idiom' nonsense.
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
(Romans 3:21)
this blows up the 'we can only know or have righteousness by the law' nonsense(Romans 3:21)
if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void, for the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
(Romans 4:14-15)
this blows up your 'gotta keep the law that's how we're saved' nonsense.(Romans 4:14-15)
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
(Romans 6:1-2)
this blows up the idiot accusation that rejoicing in the fact we've been made free means we're thinking or telling anyone that they can just sin all they want - as well as the stupid idea that we even want toBy no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
(Romans 6:1-2)
Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code
(Romans 7:1-6)
this blows up the ridiculous assertion that we're under the law, and explains how it comes to be and why "there is therefore no more condemnation for those who are in Christ" ((Romans 8:1)) -- not because we're faithfully working at 1/3 or less of the law, having found perverse ways to ignore 2/3 of the jots and tittles of it, but because through Christ we have died.
For apart from the law, sin lies dead.
(Romans 7:8)
this blows up the foolishness called 'wisdom' by some of you people on this thread thinking you're teachers, trying to convince the free to become bondsman again, that by slavery to the law you escape sin(Romans 7:8)
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Romans 8:7-8)
this blows up the ridiculousness of a righteousness measured and achieved by the working of the flesh at carnal commandments -- which no one is worthy to judge here, because 'all you who judge are guilty'(Romans 8:7-8)
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear
(Romans 8:15)
this blows up the completely imaginary notion that the Spirit of God given to the believer is the spirit of bondage to the law - for 'perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment' ((1 John 4:8))(Romans 8:15)
do i need to go on or are you literate?
am i being harsh? yes i'm being direct. whoever hates correction is stupid, and the Lord chastens those He loves.
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Remember people. If we disagree with this person. We are blind, We NEED to be right. We are rarely wrong (he does not know us very well thats for sure)
I mean, it can not be him who is proud Him who isblind, Him who needs to be right (which is why he won;t answer a questions which would prove him wrong)
This man will answer to God one day.. I just pray he repents before that day happens.
I mean, it can not be him who is proud Him who isblind, Him who needs to be right (which is why he won;t answer a questions which would prove him wrong)
This man will answer to God one day.. I just pray he repents before that day happens.
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Sorry to interrupt your discussion bro. Just happened to notice your challenge while I was visiting and reading certain threads that got my attention and I remember you telling me from another thread that i misuunderstood your point when you said that God created man so that He can serve them.(not sure if paraphrased)
My question is this,
Who gives the law and commandments which are to be obeyed... the master or the servant?
Who then could possibly ignore the law and commandments?
If sin is the transgression of the law, is the master who gives the law for the servant to follow, the transgressor of his laws?
If God created us so that He can serve us, will He not be under those whom He serves?
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? Romans 6:16
“Suppose one of you had a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Would he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? Would he not rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? Would he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’” Luke 17:7-10
I can't imagine God saying these to those whom He serves.
God bless.
My question is this,
Who gives the law and commandments which are to be obeyed... the master or the servant?
Who then could possibly ignore the law and commandments?
If sin is the transgression of the law, is the master who gives the law for the servant to follow, the transgressor of his laws?
If God created us so that He can serve us, will He not be under those whom He serves?
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? Romans 6:16
“Suppose one of you had a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Would he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? Would he not rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? Would he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’” Luke 17:7-10
I can't imagine God saying these to those whom He serves.
God bless.
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Did God have to give a law wqhen he created Adam and Eve? Of course not. The law was not given until thousands of years later, so in context of that thread. Not sure what your trying to prove.
God created us to LOVE and SERVE us as a love father. Just like he SERVED the church and gave it to her.
Is there a problem with this thinking?
Who has obeyed them would be a better question would it not? Has anyone other than Christ fulfilled that aspect of the law and obeyed every word? Remember, if we keep every one of them, yet fail in just one point, we are guilty of all. So why should we focus on what is impossible, should we not focus on what is possible? Which is learning the law of love?
Sin goes way further than just transgressing the law. While yes, if we transgress the law. We are in sin, And according to scripture under the curse of the law. The danger is if we think sin is just breaking the law. We will nto look to the root of sin, and really understand what sin is. Do you not think that should be our most important thing as believers and children of God to do? I do! Remember, if we KNOW to do right, and do not do it, TO US IT IS SIN.
That sin is not found in the law. As are many other sins.. The law is just a guide given to prove we are sinners. It does not tell us HOW to be righteous. Only how unrighteous we are.
Nope. Was he under us when he washed the dsciples feet? Was he under us when he died on the cross?
I do not think you understand what I mean by servant, Please if you have a question ask. .A FATHER serves his child by loving them, just like he serves the wife. Just like a wife serves the husband and her kids, Just like the church serves its people.
Its called a loving relationship. Takin care of needs. And supplying needs.
Did not God promise to supply ALL our needs? This is called serving the one you love. Is it not?
Once again, I do not think You are not understanding anything I am saying. If you still have questions please Ask. I hoped I explained it better
God created us to LOVE and SERVE us as a love father. Just like he SERVED the church and gave it to her.
Is there a problem with this thinking?
Who has obeyed them would be a better question would it not? Has anyone other than Christ fulfilled that aspect of the law and obeyed every word? Remember, if we keep every one of them, yet fail in just one point, we are guilty of all. So why should we focus on what is impossible, should we not focus on what is possible? Which is learning the law of love?
Sin goes way further than just transgressing the law. While yes, if we transgress the law. We are in sin, And according to scripture under the curse of the law. The danger is if we think sin is just breaking the law. We will nto look to the root of sin, and really understand what sin is. Do you not think that should be our most important thing as believers and children of God to do? I do! Remember, if we KNOW to do right, and do not do it, TO US IT IS SIN.
That sin is not found in the law. As are many other sins.. The law is just a guide given to prove we are sinners. It does not tell us HOW to be righteous. Only how unrighteous we are.
Nope. Was he under us when he washed the dsciples feet? Was he under us when he died on the cross?
I do not think you understand what I mean by servant, Please if you have a question ask. .A FATHER serves his child by loving them, just like he serves the wife. Just like a wife serves the husband and her kids, Just like the church serves its people.
Its called a loving relationship. Takin care of needs. And supplying needs.
Did not God promise to supply ALL our needs? This is called serving the one you love. Is it not?
Once again, I do not think You are not understanding anything I am saying. If you still have questions please Ask. I hoped I explained it better
1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived evil communications corrupt good manners.
1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God I speak this to your shame.
1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God I speak this to your shame.
1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
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Getting back to the topic of this thread...
John gives a description of Christ...
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
So Christ is full of truth. Everything he says is the truth.
Christ describes his words before new covenant is established...
John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life
So Christ's words are Spirit and Life.
What happens when a person hears and obeys (acts on) Christ's words...
Matthew 7:24
Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Luke 11:28
And He said, "No rather, blessed are those hearing the word of God and obeys it."
John 8:31
Truly, truly, I tell you, if anyone keeps My word, he will never see death.”
So one who obeys Christ's words is:
- considered wise
- builds on a solid foundation
- will be blessed
- will never see death (i.e. have everlasting life)
What Christ says to do to inherit everlasting life...
Luke 18:18,20,22
18 Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
20 You know the commandments: ’...
22 You still lack one thing: Sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”
Matthew 19:16-17, 21
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 and he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mark 10:17-19, 21
17As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up and knelt before Him. “Good Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.
19 You know the commandments...
21 Jesus looked at him, loved him, and said to him, “There is one thing you lack: Go, sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me
So Christ says to (a) obey the commandments and (b) follow him is how to inherit eternal life, confirmed by three gospels.
After new covenant was established (death & resurrection), Christ said this to his disciples before his ascension...
Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
So for the new covenant, Christs tells his disciples to teach others to OBEY EVERYTHING He said to them prior to him going to the cross.
----
I think the message is clear. The disciples Christ's disciples were to make are to obeying everything Christ said, which means obeying everything he said.
So we are to obey the commandments and follow Christ. Same thing that's repeated in Revelation 14:12.
For eternal life, Christ said:
A) obey the commandments
B) have the faith of Christ
John gives a description of Christ...
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
So Christ is full of truth. Everything he says is the truth.
Christ describes his words before new covenant is established...
John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life
So Christ's words are Spirit and Life.
What happens when a person hears and obeys (acts on) Christ's words...
Matthew 7:24
Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Luke 11:28
And He said, "No rather, blessed are those hearing the word of God and obeys it."
John 8:31
Truly, truly, I tell you, if anyone keeps My word, he will never see death.”
So one who obeys Christ's words is:
- considered wise
- builds on a solid foundation
- will be blessed
- will never see death (i.e. have everlasting life)
What Christ says to do to inherit everlasting life...
Luke 18:18,20,22
18 Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
20 You know the commandments: ’...
22 You still lack one thing: Sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”
Matthew 19:16-17, 21
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 and he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mark 10:17-19, 21
17As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up and knelt before Him. “Good Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.
19 You know the commandments...
21 Jesus looked at him, loved him, and said to him, “There is one thing you lack: Go, sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me
So Christ says to (a) obey the commandments and (b) follow him is how to inherit eternal life, confirmed by three gospels.
After new covenant was established (death & resurrection), Christ said this to his disciples before his ascension...
Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
So for the new covenant, Christs tells his disciples to teach others to OBEY EVERYTHING He said to them prior to him going to the cross.
----
I think the message is clear. The disciples Christ's disciples were to make are to obeying everything Christ said, which means obeying everything he said.
So we are to obey the commandments and follow Christ. Same thing that's repeated in Revelation 14:12.
For eternal life, Christ said:
A) obey the commandments
B) have the faith of Christ
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Perfect placement! Really, if only those who read it could see how plain that is to see! If they would only recognize that the lives of pride and resisting chastisement and humbling regarding their sins is a "stronghold" on their walk to the point that they have failed to "enter in"!
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Who should I ask Bro?
Sorry but i find it hard to accept that i should listen to other voices than the voice of Truth who says that He is the Lord.(not your servant)
This is what the Lord says— your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go. If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your righteousness like the waves of the sea. Your descendants would have been like the sand, your children like its numberless grains; their name would never be cut off nor destroyed from before me.” Isaiah 48:17-19
James 3:1-2
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11
Sorry but i find it hard to accept that i should listen to other voices than the voice of Truth who says that He is the Lord.(not your servant)
This is what the Lord says— your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go. If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your righteousness like the waves of the sea. Your descendants would have been like the sand, your children like its numberless grains; their name would never be cut off nor destroyed from before me.” Isaiah 48:17-19
James 3:1-2
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11
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Jesus did not say this, If you look at context. He was tryin to teach the keeper of the law a point. The person left because he was very wealthy
1. He did not love his lord his God
2. He coveted money, more than he coveting God
Jesus did this alot. Just like we try to do with you all. But as usuall. You misinterpret jesus like you do us.
John 3 - 6 alone shows that the only thing needed for eternal life was to believe in him. Whoever believes will nto die. Whoever believes has eternal life Whoever believes and asks will be given rivers of living water flowing to eternal life.
Now. Those who are saved live a life of obedience, By practice they will be people who obey Gods comands But this is not a prerequisite. It is an identification point.
1. He did not love his lord his God
2. He coveted money, more than he coveting God
Jesus did this alot. Just like we try to do with you all. But as usuall. You misinterpret jesus like you do us.
John 3 - 6 alone shows that the only thing needed for eternal life was to believe in him. Whoever believes will nto die. Whoever believes has eternal life Whoever believes and asks will be given rivers of living water flowing to eternal life.
Now. Those who are saved live a life of obedience, By practice they will be people who obey Gods comands But this is not a prerequisite. It is an identification point.
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