John MacArthur claims "no allegories in Scripture" - dispensationalist delusions

Do you believe ALL believers must "die" (necessitating a "resurrection") BEFORE He comes/returns/His Second Coming? (since "death" is totally defeated at that time [according to your understanding of 1Cor15:24, not mine ], and it seems you are suggesting that in order for it to be "defeated" it must have been "experienced" [/actualized] in time/history, at some point, for any and all believers)

My view, as you may recall, is that "[bodily] resurrection [from the dead]" will not be experienced by those not having actually DIED, and that "resurrection" (except for those passages referring to "Israel" coming up out of the "graveyard of nations"--so not being 'a bodily resurrection from being formerly-physically dead,' there) ['resurrection'] means "to stand again [on the earth]" and pertains to "formerly-physically-DEAD" people [/saints, in the "resurrection OF LIFE" of course]; yet 1Cor15:51-54 is saying that both "the DEAD IN Christ," AND the "we [in Christ] which are ALIVE and remain unto" is who [in this "I tell you a mystery" section] that this "death is swallowed up in victory" applies to [not that it is the only (singular) point in time that "bodily resurrection from being formerly-dead" will take place, in the chronology that is revealed in Scripture], meaning, both of the "still-ALIVE" and the "having-previously-DIED" believers. [2Cor5:3-4 is speaking SOLELY of those "STILL-ALIVE" portion of "the Church which is His body [/believers]" as THAT is the focus of Paul's thought in those 2 verses]

As far as it not being the ONLY point-in-time of the chronology laid out in Scripture, I ask you to consider a post I made some time back (in the context of a different convo), essentially making two points about the "ORDER/SEQUENCE" of "resurrection" (meaning, that there doesn't remain only ONE)...

Consider:

[quoting my old post]

"[again, my viewpoint: "[re: resurrection] but each [G1538 - Hekastos - [defined as-->] 'each (of more than two)'] IN HIS OWN ORDER" 1Cor15:23; "blessed and holy is the one having A PART [G3313 - meros] in the first resurrection" Rev20:6... that is, in "the resurrection OF LIFE" Jn5:29--The 2W are included in this "resurrection OF LIFE" but are seen to be resurrected and ascended up to Heaven BEFORE the 7th Trumpet sounds (and so is "the Church which is His body" even earlier than that point in the chronology, which is what 1Cor15:51-54 is making a point to say, not to mention the "chronology/sequence" explanations found in passages such as 1Th and 2Th, and 2Tim4:8/Rev4:4/Rev5:9/Eph4:30, pertaining to same)]"

[end quoting my post]


There's more I could say, but this post is already long enough...

Pot < > Kettle

Your general reaching is telling friend

Death is defeated when Christ is returned.

I don't know what you're asking.

Dispensationalism is largely an American position on eschatology. Amillennialism is much more common in Europe.

However my guess is that Africans, when they focus on eschatology, are dispensationalist because of the Pentecostal/charismatic influence. These groups tend to be dispensationalists.

You keep using the term "American" (South America, Central America, North America) which is a continent, not a country are you meaning the United States?

You keep using the term "American" (South America, Central America, North America) which is a continent, not a country are you meaning the United States?

Correct.

I don't think the phrase "first resurrection" means that there are multiple resurrections, although one might consider the "second death" to be a type of resurrection.

Your point is a good one, but I would add that as far as evangelicals go, my guess is South America, Central America are largely Pentecostal/Charismatic, which would tend to carry dispensationalism along with their theology. I doubt they really understand it, though. I am finding that many dispensationalists don't even understand the details, even though they fiercely defend it.

Around the Indiana/Michigan/Ohio tri-state area, a large percentage of evangelical churches are dispensational...maybe even 80 percent.

If I'm going to hold a theology I'm going to understand it at some level.

What verse/passage/passages do you take that idea from? 1 Corinthians 15:24?

What do you think about Revelation 19:15b [the mid-section of that verse] (and correlating with Rev2:26-27 [involving the believers]), which shows a "shall [future-tense-to-that-point-in-the-chronology]" word?? ("and He shall [future tense] shepherd them [the nations] with a rod [/sceptre] of iron [righteousness and strength, like in Heb1:8]")

I'll come back in a minute and offer a few more thoughts to consider (on that other post I'd just made)...

In South and Central America Catholic's are more common.

You can find numerous Scriptures that support this concept that believers are reigning with Christ now.

Wasnt the Plymouth Brethern from England in Europe?

If this were actually true there would be UNIVERSAL PEACE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS ON EARTH. Christians do not have the liberty to manufacture theology and create fantasies.

When the saints actually reign with Christ during that 1,000 year period, Satan is LITERALLY BOUND in the bottomless pit. Which means that all evil influences on earth have been shut down while Christ is in control.

REVELATION 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Amillennials teach that believers, especially those who have died in the past, are ruling with Jesus now, sharing his authority as he rules over the nations. You can find numerous Scriptures that support this concept that believers are reigning with Christ now. Rev. 20 would be one place to start.

Amillennials teach that believers, especially those who have died in the past, are ruling with Jesus now, sharing his authority as he rules over the nations. You can find numerous Scriptures that support this concept that believers are reigning with Christ now.

I've read Sam Storms (and of course, you know I disagree with him... not interested in reading him again)... My question involved, what do YOU think about the Rev19:15b wording regarding Jesus (at that point in the chronology) and it saying "HE SHALL [future] shepherd them [the nations] with a rod [/sceptre] of iron [righteousness and strength, like in Heb1:8]"? Do you believe this correlates with the Lk19:12,15,17,19 passage [re: "RETURN"]? and what that passage ALSO shows to involve? ["have thou authority over 10 cities"... "likewise be thou over 5"... and that "cities" are located on the earth]... and what about the fact that "King" is used only TWO times in all of the epistles, and both of them are "future" (ex: "which IN HIS TIMES He SHALL SHEW [openly manifest], who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" [see that "K-of-k, and L-of-l" phrase used only elsewhere in Rev19:16 (and 17:14, I believe in reverse order there)], ...

[will have to finish this post in another segment... ]

The amillennial position is that Satan is bound in the sense that he cannot deceive the nations as a whole anymore..and the phrase "the nations" is a commonly used phrase to refer to Gentiles. Satan is not bound in every sense, only in this sense. He cannot prevent Christians from evangelizing and suppress the knowledge of the truth in a comprehensive manner like he did prior to the cross.

And.....do you deny that Christians are ruling with Jesus now? Are you really going to challenge me that I can't supply verses to this effect? By virtue of union with Christ, this is taught in Scripture. If you want me to show you verses, I will, but it will basically reveal that you aren't familiar with Scripture.

You can start with Ephesians 2:6-7. Believers are already seated with Jesus in his throne.

You're going to have to learn to write in briefer, shorter sentences. You write like the Puritans

The amillennial position is that Satan is bound in the sense that he cannot deceive the nations as a whole anymore..