Retire the Ten Commandments?

Just thought everyone would like a little amusement amidst all the arguing.

Yes, the A-series steels have a beautiful fine grained martensite structure when properly tempered. The equal of S-7 IMO.

Hello MMD. First i wanna say you are saved by grace ALONE. It is a free gift. But to whom is that free gift givin? David Koresh? Jim Jones? The righteous and those who practice iniquity? I am not a 7th day adventist. Dont they believe as you? Friday afternoon till sunday morning = 3 days and 3 nights. Is it important you believe "according to scripture"

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

"It is a free gift. But to whom is that free gift givin?"

Believers. Period. The rest follows.

We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin/iniquity. (1 John 3:9-10) David Koresh and Jim Jones may have believed certain Biblical facts in their head, but they obviously were not trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and their despicable actions were not the fruit of righteousness.

Yes, but righteousness according to scripture

1JOHN2 [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[29] If ye know that he is righteous, YE KNOW THAT EVERY ONE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BORN OF HIM.

This new covenant scripture claims if you are born of God, you will be acting righteously.

DEUT.6 [25] And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments. OBSERVE TO DO! We will fall short.

PSALM 119 [172] My tongue shall speak of thy word: for ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.[173] Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.[174] I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

For ALL thy commandments are righteousness (even the keeping of the sabbath). Also mentioned here is salvation. Being saved.

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and THY RIGHTEOUSNESS as the waves of the sea:

Lord-Redeemer-Holy one of Israel (no question as to who that is)....And its He who tells us to keep the 10 commandments

The new testament says the same thing the old testament said.

1COR.15 [34] AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND SIN NOT; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

1 JOHN 3 [7] Little children, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: HE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, even as he is righteous.[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

LUKE 1 [6] And they were BOTH RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD, WALKING IN ALL THE COMMANDMENTS and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

1 PETER 4 [17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[18] And IF THE RIGHTEOUS SCARCELY BE SAVED, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

And if not for the gift of “grace” through faith no one would be saved for all have fallen short. Except of course, JESUS.

Yes, but iniquity according to scripture

PSALM 94 [11] The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. [12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law; [13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. [14] For the Lord will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. [15] But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. [16] WHO WILL RISE UP FOR ME AGAINST THE EVILDOERS? OR WHO WILL STAND UP FOR ME AGAINST THE WORKERS OF INIQUITY?

LEV.5 [17] And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.

Break commandments=iniquity

PSALMS 89 [30] If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;[31] If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;[32] Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

Break commandments=iniquity

MATT.7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Ye that work iniquity=I never knew you {proclaimed believers}

1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Theres the children that know the Lord.

JEREMIAH 16 [9] For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride. [10] And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? or WHAT IS OUR INIQUITY? or what is our sin that we have committed against the Lord our God? [11] Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, AND HAVE FORSAKEN ME, AND HAVE NOT KEPT MY LAW;...........

[14] Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; [15] But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

Verses 14 and 15 of this chapter in Jeremiah speaks of the gathering of Gods people (in the twinkling of an eye) to the 1000 yr period of rest. At that time, the many (Matt.7) will ask “what is our iniquity”. The answer given will be simple. You have not kept MY law. Gods 10 commandments.

Are you interpreting these passages of scripture to teach that man is saved based on the merits of obeying the 10 commandments? Are you also teaching sinless perfection? Is the new covenant to you just basically the old covenant repackaged?

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 3:23; 6:23) and not through the law. (Romans 3:22-28; 10:1-4; Galatians 2:16) If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer?

Where do you attend church?

So since we all fall short, how will we be saved based on the merits of obeying all the commandments?

Yet you previously mentioned that we will fall short of observing to do all the commandments. So according to your logic, EVERYONE is a worker of iniquity and will not be saved.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith - Philippians 3:9) and the blood of Christ was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father. (John 6:40)

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts. *Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on works. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but instead, He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ. Apart from faith in Christ and the blood of Christ, we would all amount to nothing more than workers of iniquity.

How do define "keep" His commandments? 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved, demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word is "tereo" (Strong's #5083) which means to guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time to all of His commandments, as sinless perfectionists teach.

Yet your answer will be that you HAVE kept His laws/God's 10 commandments? That is what you are trusting in for salvation? Your best efforts to obey the 10 commandments and be justified by the law?

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Righteousness is not by the law for the Christian. Righteousness is a gift from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Righteousness that people had to work for through the law wasn't really ever all that great before God.

Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


These New Testament scriptures kind of throw a huge wrench into the machine for the whole working at the law for your righteousness, don't you think?

Christianity is a brand new thing. Christians don't work for their Righteousness before God. Not that it was ever really possible for anyone to ever do that before. But obviously, they thought they could. Looks like some still do.


Here's some more easy scriptures for you to think about;

Romans 9:30-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

ROMANS 4 [13] For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.[14] For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:[15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.[16] THEREFORE IT IS OF FAITH, THAT IT MIGHT BE BY GRACE; to the end THE PROMISE MIGHT BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Seems Abraham and his seed recieved the promise through faith

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I WILL GIVE ALL THESE COUNTRIES, AND I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, AND WILL GIVE UNTO THY SEED all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

But... Abe was also keeping Gods 10 commandments.

HEBREWS 11 [28] THROUGH FAITH HE KEPT THE PASSOVER, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Heres Moses keeping the law of the passover by faith.

1 JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous. [4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, EVEN OUR FAITH.

Says what it says

Your error:
We are not now in ANY law-works economy. Jesus fulfilled the law for us. We exist in a state of Grace through Faith.

Yep. That's pretty important.

Scripture doesn't say Abraham was keeping Gods "10 commandments". It says Abraham obeyed Gods Voice and kept His Charge, His Commandments, His Statutes and His Laws.

Abraham did this by Faith. Not by working at the 10 commandments that didn't even exist yet.

Abraham attained to the Righteousness of Faith.

Yes. Keeping Passover requires faith in God. That God will protect the inhabitants of the house with the blood on the sides and top and bottom of the doorway.

It was a picture of Christ to come.

Yes it does.

So let's take this scripture in 1 John 5 and apply it to the scripture in Romans 9.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Which are keeping Gods Commandments? The ones that are working at them or the ones that have faith in Christ? The ones that have attained to Righteousness or the ones who have NOT attained to righteousness?

Should be easy to decide.

Here's one to help out;

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Keeping all these scriptures in mind, How are Commandments Kept? By working at the law or by Faith in Christ?


You see, those who have confidence in Christ aren't lawless. They just don't work at the written laws the way the carnal mind thinks they need to be.


Instead of trusting in their own work at the law for their Righteousness, they trust in Christ.
Instead of trusting in their work at the law for their Blessing, they trust in Christ.
Instead of trusting in their work at the law for their Obedience, they trust in Christ.
Instead of trusting in their work at the law to Keep Gods Commandments, they trust in Christ.

You can probably see what I'm driving at. Without Christ, we can do nothing.

1 John 5 referts to the Law of Christ.....not the Law of Moses or anything else.

https://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=Law+of+Christ

MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. [18] For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Im still standing on Gods green earth. How about you cv5?

Yup. Your right. Scripture says honest Abe obeyed Gods voice

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

So why was Abraham observing to keep Gods 10 commandments? He heard and obeyed Gods "voice"

DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God . [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The voice...The 10 commandments. No doubt about it

ZEPHANIAH 3 [1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city! [2] SHE OBEYED NOT THE VOICE; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God. [3] Her princes within her are ROARING LIONS; her judges are evening WOLVES; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. [4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, THEY HAVE DONE VIOLENCE TO THE LAW.

Youll find those lions and wolves mentioned in the new covenant scriptures. The bad guys

JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Also Gods sheep shall also hear His “voice”.

HEBREWS 4 [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, harden not your hearts.

Was this prophecied to happen?

DEUTERONOMY 4 [26] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. [27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. [28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. [29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. [30] When thou art in TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee, even in THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be OBEDIENT UNTO HIS VOICE; [31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Yup. Dont you wanna be those who are prophecied about in Deut.4?

Would ya rather be among the guys below

PSALM 119 [126] IT IS TIME FOR THEE, LORD, TO WORK: for they have MADE VOID THY LAW. [127] THEREFORE I LOVE THY COMMANDMENTS above gold; yea, above fine gold. [128] Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way

Time to go to work Lord

ROMANS 9 [28] For HE WILL FINISH THE WORK, and cut it short in righteousness: because A SHORT WORK will the Lord make upon the earth.

Itll be quick

OK. Please read thru this again. And again if necessary.

https://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=Law+of+Christ

Post it. Ill read it.

Yes, I imagine it will be quick.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Which here have MADE VOID THY LAW?

Those with faith in Christ who DON'T Work at the law but have attained to Righteousness?
Or those who work at the law and have not attained to Righteousness?


Which here keep the law?

Those with faith in Christ who don't work at the law but have attained to Righteousness?
Or those who work at the law and have not attained to Righteousness?


Which here will the Lord say "Depart from me for I never knew you" to?

Those with faith in Christ who don't work at the law but have attained to Righteousness?
Or those who work at the law and have not attained to Righteousness?


Which here Establish the Law?

Those with faith in Christ who don't work at the law but have attained to Righteousness?
Or those who work at the law and have not attained to Righteousness?



For some reason people seem to be stuck on law. Not understanding that there is no substitute for Christ.