A drug dealer that believe he have strong faith

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J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#1
Feb 6, 2014
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#1
I have a neighbors, people in town know he Sale a drug and thief. He come to me and ask If I can help him to pick up the tool, because his truck stop working.

To my surprise he talk about end time, he believe we are in the 7 years tribulation,

I ask him, why we as Cristian still able to buy and sale

He believe very soon we have to take the mark. I Said, it is scary.

He Said: I am not afraid, I have strong relationship with Jesus.

And I ask him, but you smoke wid

Yes, but i am not steal money to buy drug, i work for It.

Seem to me he think mariyuana is ok, as long as you not steal, but people in town say he is a thief.

I do not know what kind of Teology he believe, but he tell me he was lutheran, but he is not church goer

I want to know who agree wih him who not I appreciate your partisipation
 
TabinRivCA

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
#2
Oct 23, 2018
13,223
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#2
You could explain to him that drugs are actually mentioned in the Bible. The word 'pharmakia' which literally means drugs, is listed 5 times in the NT as a negative. Ref Scriptures: Gal 5:20, Rev 9:21, 18:23, 21:8 and 22:15.
If he is concerned about end times, he needs to be obedient to God's Word. 'Be doers of the Word and not just listeners'.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#3
Feb 6, 2014
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#3
TabinRivCA said:
You could explain to him that drugs are actually mentioned in the Bible. The word 'pharmakia' which literally means drugs, is listed 5 times in the NT as a negative. Ref Scriptures: Gal 5:20, Rev 9:21, 18:23, 21:8 and 22:15.
If he is concerned about end times, he needs to be obedient to God's Word. 'Be doers of the Word and not just listeners'.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Seem to me new generation little bit different from us. I am 63 years, he is 25 years.

Young people smartes than us, I do not know what is in his mind, he may think every body sinner, Jesus die for our sin, so smoke mariyuana is like other sin not make you to hell, as long as you have strong faith in Jesus.

Whe I am young we believe different kind of teaching, we think mariyuana user mean No faith.

He think that kind of believe is legalis not real faith
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#4
Dec 12, 2013
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#4
Did God make every herb bearing seed? ALL things in moderation as long as it does not offend a weaker brother and ALL things are lawful, although not expedient Paul said.....

Can we be biblical without being hyper religious and hypocritical??
 
TabinRivCA

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
#5
Oct 23, 2018
13,223
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#5
I get it but the Bible does have something to say about 'pharmakia' = drugs that can lead to sorcery. I'd pass him the above Scriptures esp Gal 5:20, say a prayer over him and turn it over to God.

I can't deny some people swear mj relieves their chronic pain and some use it to relax. I heard some of the founding fathers used mj/hemp so I myself would not judge anyone using it for these reasons.
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#6
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
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#6
Jackson123 said:
Thanks, Seem to me new generation little bit different from us. I am 63 years, he is 25 years.

Young people smartes than us, I do not know what is in his mind, he may think every body sinner, Jesus die for our sin, so smoke mariyuana is like other sin not make you to hell, as long as you have strong faith in Jesus.

Whe I am young we believe different kind of teaching, we think mariyuana user mean No faith.

He think that kind of believe is legalis not real faith
Click to expand...
"When I am young we believe different kind of teaching, we think mariyuana user mean No faith."

If marijuana is illegal where you live, I would just tell him that Christians are commanded to abide by the laws.
I would give him scripture that says we are to obey the civic laws... and then I would leave things at that.

Show him scriptures that say we should obey the laws, and then you're done.
Let him violate scripture if he wants.

..
 
maxwel

maxwel

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#7
Apr 18, 2013
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#7
Note To Readers:

The OP is in indonesia.
That is a very strict muslim country.
It is very likely that marijuana is illegal there.
If marijuana is illegal there, then a long debate about marijuana use is irrelevant.
It is violation of a civic law... end of discussion.

..
 
maxwel

maxwel

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#8
Apr 18, 2013
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#8
Rule of Thumb:

When we give counsel, it's a good rule of thumb to first really listen, and really make sure we understand what's going on with a person.

When we understand a person clearly, and understand their circumstances, then we're in the best position to give good counsel.

.
 
TabinRivCA

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
#9
Oct 23, 2018
13,223
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#9
maxwel said:
Note To Readers:

The OP is in indonesia.
That is a very strict muslim country.
It is very likely that marijuana is illegal there.
If marijuana is illegal there, then a long debate about marijuana use is irrelevant.
It is violation of a civic law... end of discussion.

..
Click to expand...
'End of discussion' does that mean we stop the thread?
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#10
Apr 18, 2013
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#10
TabinRivCA said:
'End of discussion' does that mean we stop the thread?
Click to expand...
You are free, as is everyone else, to chat in any thread, as long as you like, about anything you like.

When I said "end of discussion", I meant that the issue between the OP and the "Christian marijuana user" is a biblically resolved issue.

If marijuana use in his country is illegal, then for a Christian to be using marijuana would be to violate scripture by violating civic laws.
As far as counseling, that is the end of the matter.
Christians are not to violate civic laws.

If marijuana use is illegal there, then our personal opinions on marijuana are irrelevant.
Christians are not to break the laws, and that would be the biblical counsel to give.

NOTE:
In countries where marijuana is legal, then the entire issues must, and should, be approached and discussed differently.
But if something is illegal in your country, then it isn't open to much biblical debate.


..
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#11
Dec 12, 2013
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#11
maxwel said:
Note To Readers:

The OP is in indonesia.
That is a very strict muslim country.
It is very likely that marijuana is illegal there.
If marijuana is illegal there, then a long debate about marijuana use is irrelevant.
It is violation of a civic law... end of discussion.

..
Click to expand...
Not in about 12 to 14 states, and is being legalized almost monthly in many other states.... ;)
 
maxwel

maxwel

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#12
Apr 18, 2013
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#12
dcontroversal said:
Not in about 12 to 14 states, and is being legalized almost monthly in many other states.... ;)
Click to expand...
Like I said, if it's legal in your country, then it falls under different Biblical principles.
A different discussion is required.

We need to remember there is a REASON Christians are to obey civic laws.
We don't do it because every law happens to be a good law, that's irrelevant.
We do it because that affords us the correct reputation in the lost world, so that we can properly witness.
We are commanded to be "blameless."

If I like wearing red sneakers, and I go to a country where that's illegal,
then I'm an idiot for wearing red sneakers.
Being a rebel and wearing red sneakers in that country isn't going to further the gospel.

So, there may be reasons to use, or not use, marijuana.
But in a place where it's illegal, then you can debate whether or not it's a good law, but you can't debate whether or not a Christian should be breaking the law.

.


..
 
Mii

Mii

Well-known member
#13
Mar 23, 2019
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#13
It is important to bring up the Pharmakeia element.

As well as civil disobedience.


Because it certainly can and does lead to those things.

It's something that's very personal to me and I've struggled long and hard about it. How plenty of people think things are okay as medicine or as a sacrament but are clearly against any occult activity

and yet, any time I've followed either of the former two thought patterns, all it does is bring up confusion and I feel like it's divination and not trusting the Lord to be my healer and my portion. Even when prescribed.

The ONLY time it didn't feel that way is during hospital visits for kidney stones. Nowadays I probably would just struggle through it.


The civil topic is sticky for me personally because in this country we have civil and criminal distinctions.

You break the law every time you sashay throw a stop sign or go through a yellow light that turns red or go 1MPH over the speed limit even when your life is at risk, technically. It's very give and take and you can get exceptionally legalistic about it to your hurt.

I've spent nights in agony and extreme anxiety over emissions and not being able to legally drive my car on the road but needing to do a drive cycle to effect necessary repairs. Would any of you really junk your car for scrap despite being worth 20x that amount just to abide by the law? Or take the civil infraction and follow the "innocent until proven guilty" logic?



The only place I can practically rest in is the civil and criminal distinctions. To make a solid effort to abide by every law that is in your knowledge and to learn from your mistakes.

If it's criminally illegal I would certainly go with the biblical assertion.

and @dcontroversal it's federally still illegal. So you are breaking the law regardless of what your states says and then it gets into more vague territory of whether or not states rights trump federal authority and then if you want to go even further you can look up global laws and UN agreements. Even though the Fed "said" the would not interfere...it's still against the law of the "land".

As well as laws that apply to international waters, even though many are of the opinion that no jurisdiction exists and that the world cannot simply put sanctions on every cubic inch of earth.


So when I say "sticky" I mean it comes down to your own personal walk and what the Lord's Spirit brings your attention.
I think this is a serious topic and it frustrates me that nearly everyone I meet in both the church and out think I'm crazy for taking it to the extreme, as well as other more personal insults from believers even strong ones that in moments of weakness does a lot of damage.

I do know he is my healer and he IS the God who sees. So there is that at least :)

Or one could always become a Canadian.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#14
Dec 12, 2013
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#14
Mii said:
It is important to bring up the Pharmakeia element.

As well as civil disobedience.


Because it certainly can and does lead to those things.

It's something that's very personal to me and I've struggled long and hard about it. How plenty of people think things are okay as medicine or as a sacrament but are clearly against any occult activity

and yet, any time I've followed either of the former two thought patterns, all it does is bring up confusion and I feel like it's divination and not trusting the Lord to be my healer and my portion. Even when prescribed.

The ONLY time it didn't feel that way is during hospital visits for kidney stones. Nowadays I probably would just struggle through it.


The civil topic is sticky for me personally because in this country we have civil and criminal distinctions.

You break the law every time you sashay throw a stop sign or go through a yellow light that turns red or go 1MPH over the speed limit even when your life is at risk, technically. It's very give and take and you can get exceptionally legalistic about it to your hurt.

I've spent nights in agony and extreme anxiety over emissions and not being able to legally drive my car on the road but needing to do a drive cycle to effect necessary repairs. Would any of you really junk your car for scrap despite being worth 20x that amount just to abide by the law? Or take the civil infraction and follow the "innocent until proven guilty" logic?



The only place I can practically rest in is the civil and criminal distinctions. To make a solid effort to abide by every law that is in your knowledge and to learn from your mistakes.

If it's criminally illegal I would certainly go with the biblical assertion.

and @dcontroversal it's federally still illegal. So you are breaking the law regardless of what your states says and then it gets into more vague territory of whether or not states rights trump federal authority and then if you want to go even further you can look up global laws and UN agreements. Even though the Fed "said" the would not interfere...it's still against the law of the "land".

As well as laws that apply to international waters, even though many are of the opinion that no jurisdiction exists and that the world cannot simply put sanctions on every cubic inch of earth.


So when I say "sticky" I mean it comes down to your own personal walk and what the Lord's Spirit brings your attention.
I think this is a serious topic and it frustrates me that nearly everyone I meet in both the church and out think I'm crazy for taking it to the extreme, as well as other more personal insults from believers even strong ones that in moments of weakness does a lot of damage.

I do know he is my healer and he IS the God who sees. So there is that at least :)

Or one could always become a Canadian.
Click to expand...
I am not breaking any law...thank you very much....!!
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

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#15
Sep 3, 2016
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#15
Jackson123 said:
And I ask him, but you smoke wid
Click to expand...
Most men on this form continue to watch pornography and masturbate to it after they have been Born-again. Question? Are they saved? Are they practicing sinning or committing acts of sin? Do they lose their Justification?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#16
Feb 6, 2014
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#16
maxwel said:
"When I am young we believe different kind of teaching, we think mariyuana user mean No faith."

If marijuana is illegal where you live, I would just tell him that Christians are commanded to abide by the laws.
I would give him scripture that says we are to obey the civic laws... and then I would leave things at that.

Show him scriptures that say we should obey the laws, and then you're done.
Let him violate scripture if he wants.

..
Click to expand...
It is illegal where I live, I my self only can advice him to stop.

We have long conversation, he tell me he need money, and spend a Lot of money for drug etc,

I believe is better for him to stop.

I know I am not perfect, and every body is sinner, but Seem there is sin that is danger.

My friend tell me in another town, in a motel one of the room is noicy, the room next to them call manager,

The owner son come and ask that room to lower the music, because the room next to him need sleep.

That person under influence of drug shoot him,

And he run, the next day he come back to rent the room, the owner call police, and the police say he was under influent so he forget what he did, and come back to rent the room.

I know all sini are danger, but there is a sin that e danger community
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#17
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#17
maxwel said:
Note To Readers:

The OP is in indonesia.
That is a very strict muslim country.
It is very likely that marijuana is illegal there.
If marijuana is illegal there, then a long debate about marijuana use is irrelevant.
It is violation of a civic law... end of discussion.

..
Click to expand...
I am Indonesian, but I live in Arizona for may be another 3 years, and It happen in Arizona. Me is legal If you have perscription in az
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#18
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#18
MessageOfTheCross said:
Most men on this form continue to watch pornography and masturbate to it after they have been Born-again. Question? Are they saved? Are they practicing sinning or committing acts of sin? Do they lose their Justification?
Click to expand...
Ummmmmm rather judgmental there pal......you own MOST men on this site an apology.......or get lost and take your hypocritical bs some place else.....and I did report this post........you had no right to make this call and or even post this blather
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#19
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#19
MessageOfTheCross said:
Most men on this form continue to watch pornography and masturbate to it after they have been Born-again. Question? Are they saved? Are they practicing sinning or committing acts of sin? Do they lose their Justification?[/QUOTEwer]

I admit This is not easy question. Do Jesus always forgive all sin we do If we do not try to repent?
Click to expand...
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#20
Jul 18, 2017
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#20
Jackson123 said:
He Said: I am not afraid, I have strong relationship with Jesus.
Click to expand...
This guy is simply fooling himself. If possible, you should sit down with him and show him the truth directly from the Bible (in your language).
 
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