Not By Works

FollowHisSteps · Aug 5, 2019

Every time I read what a slanderous and abusive member writes I thank God given brain I have to be able to discern the truth, the way and the life from anger, revenge and bitterness. It is just sad that they believe there is value in this behaviour.

But then can sinners ever know the freedom Christ brings until they experience it themselves, love and peace
that passes understanding, to know the King in ones heart and His cleansing of our hearts, and minds, Amen.

VCO · Aug 5, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Don't tell me we found something else we disagree on. We will get together and laugh about what we had wrong in heaven.

I THINK this verse is an ABSOLUTELY TRUE concerning Looking for their Life Style Characteristics or FRUIT, Gal. 5:22-26.
Still a FRUIT Inspector:

Matthew 7:20 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.

There for the person who only had Wood, Hay, and Stubble in his works; had to have a little bit of "lifestyle characteristics" or "FRUIT", or He would not BE SAVED.

That makes him part of the FOURTH SOIL, that can produce FRUIT.

The other three SOILS are three types that cannot produce a harvest, which have NEVER BEEN Born Again, some of them are Churchgoers.

I guess that makes me more Narrow Minded than you are. Imagine that, LOL.

dcontroversal · Aug 5, 2019

VCO said:

I believe there is evidence found throughout scripture that proves that the only one lost of the four is the first one.....the bible supports the following truths....

Some saved produce an abundant amount of good fruit
Some saved are worldly and even though they are believers produce stunted fruit that is small in size and amount
Some saved are immature and due to immaturity are easily offended and fall away while producing little if any fruit

JESUS speaks to all three above and even NATURE teaches this truth, gardens prove this truth, trees prove this truth

The churches are filled with people that are faithful, worldly, carnal, immature and EVER gambit of fruit can be found and even those who are saved so as by fire with NOTHING but faith into Christ....

one final word...

The IMMEDIATELY with JOY receive the word <----the word RECEIVE is the SAME word used in JOHN 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name

Smooth · Aug 5, 2019

DeighAnn said:

Hmmm, more anger. How sad.

VCO · Aug 5, 2019

dcontroversal said:

And they are all part of the GOOD SOIL.

Matthew 7:16 (HCSB)
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

Acts 26:14 (CSBBible)
14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice speaking to me in Aramaic, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.' [Thornbushes and Thistles, can be called goads as well as a sharp pointed stick.]

Don't it hurt to keep kicking them in your sandals. LOL

,

FollowHisSteps · Aug 6, 2019

I’m looking at the totality of your posts. You simply do not embrace God’s grace for what it is, a free gift.

I can imagine entering into this throne room and their sitting on their judgement throne is someone.
He looks up, and speaks forward the words, booming out loud.

totality - means all of someones contributions.
Gods grace is expressed in Jesus, His gift, His life, His death, His resurrection, His salvation.

If a believer mentions their faith in Jesus, and that they believe in Him, they has embraced God's
grace, and by its nature, the free giving of this grace.

So it would be impossible for the elect not to embrace the gift, because that is the faith.
So this is probably a round about way of saying someone does not believe in Jesus but is working
to prove themselves before God.

But then these attacks are no different than the fiery darts of the evil one. Interesting who are their
bed fellows. How did Jesus describe people who construct slander and lies like this

44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.
He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.
When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
John 8

FollowHisSteps · Aug 6, 2019

Hmmm, more anger. How sad.

There is a real lesson here. Do not engage with the enemy when their intent is only provocation
and slander. It is not difficult be behave like this, and our hearts in Christ believe a believer would
not follow this path. But that is the point, remove the word believer and put in its place the enemy.

Once you see everything is said for harm, how would you deal with that rude, obnoxious, irritating
boy in the class room, whose only intention is to push the limits of whats ok, and has no intention
of anything sensible. And it is sad that such people exist with such animosity against the Lords
people, but they do and they feel it is their place to put down these hypocritical liars and workers
for salvation. Some are foolish enough to declare their intention to destroy another, which should
simply warn them their love and faith have left the building and their true nature is showing.

God bless you all, and may Jesus's love continue to grow in your hearts day by day, Amen.

Smooth · Aug 6, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Works Salvationists do not, by their nature, embrace the FREE GIFT of God’s grace. What you have written is a total oxymoron.

Smooth · Aug 6, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and I preach His saving grace through faith, and condemn works salvationists. If you deem me an enemy, then you deem Jesus Christ your enemy. Buy your own words you are condemned.

DeighAnn · Aug 6, 2019

Thank You Lord. Glory be to God.

Smooth said:

Yet I shall give Praise and Glory to God!!!

Smooth · Aug 6, 2019

DeighAnn said:

Good. That’s a good start in ridding yourself of your anger. I’m happy for you.

star · Aug 6, 2019

Salvation is free. The work was done by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He offers, we accept. Why do some try and make this into a complicated configuration? Simplicity. Christ did it all. Our only part is to Accept.

mailmandan · Aug 6, 2019

star said:

Amen! That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for certain people to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to accept the free gift of eternal life. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

FollowHisSteps · Aug 6, 2019

Works Salvationists do not, by their nature, embrace the FREE GIFT of God’s grace. What you have written is a total oxymoron.

There are some important conceptual failures here. A works salvationist is trying to earn favour through their works
or behaviour before the Lord. There are apocrophal books which say Abraham balanced his good deeds against his
evil deeds and the angels argued over where he was to go when he died, heaven or hell based on this.

Unfortunately protestants who are saved by faith, regard this faith saves them.
But the feature of this faith is it produces works, behaviour that is pleasing to God. It is this behaviour that validates
the faith, shows its worth as compared to passive faith which produces nothing and is regarded by James as dead.

Now Jesus's gift of forgiveness through the cross is a work of grace, mercy, a free gift, but it must be validated
by a contrite, believing purified heart which walks in His ways.

Now for easy believists or free gracers, they regard this connection as works salvation, a human effort which devalues
Christs work on the cross. Our view is this connection shows the faith is real, a gift of God that leads to eternal life.

The theology of the heart, spirit and flesh differs as well, as well as our walk in Christ, resolution of sinful behaviour,
and fellowship of Gods people. The free gracers tend to view working faith believers as the enemy, stopping people
entering into a wonderful relationship of acceptance and love in Christ. And for some, legalism, the emphasis on rules
and check sheets, can lead to self righteousness and self justification. Sadly this happens everywhere but Gods elect
see Jesus, His word and listen to Him. It is why the elect come from all positions, yet know Jesus as their Lord and their
hearts burn for righteous walking, walking in love and working faith, Amen.

There is reason for all these different insights, but can also be inappropriately applied, and cause harm to our fellowship
and encouragement, one with another.

FollowHisSteps · Aug 6, 2019

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and I preach His saving grace through faith, and condemn works salvationists. If you deem me an enemy, then you deem Jesus Christ your enemy. Buy your own words you are condemned.

I do not regard my enemy as my enemy, rather friends who hold an erroneous view of faith and where
standing in Christ is. I discern their intent is merely to denigrate and provoke rather than engage, so
likewise I will keep my distance.

The above sentence makes a few mistakes. This individual condemns individuals who they label incorrectly as
works salvationists. By condemning people without cause or justification, he makes himself an enemy of the
law, by standing in judgement on it, rather than following it, and thereby judging God.

10> You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
Rom 14

11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.
12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?
James 4

So any observation that I personally am being attacked as an enemy is just that.
Funnily if seeing someone is attempting to condemn one, this is not making myself an enemy of Christ,
rather it is recognising correctly the intention of another and clear false definition of what one beleives
and its correct condemnation in scripture. Seeking good favour by doing good things is a good thing in
itself. Paul though shows it is only through faith are we acceptable, called righteous, though we walk in
the Lords ways, that is the fruit of our faith not the cause.

BillG · Aug 6, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Really?

I haven't come across that.
Mind you that's probably because I have never read any of them.

It sounds a bit like what the Muslims believe.

My really? Is not scarcasm btw.

BillG · Aug 6, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Is there a difference between the two above mentioned in your thoughts?

Why unfortunately?

Smooth · Aug 6, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Works Salvationists do not, by their nature, embrace the FREE GIFT of God’s grace. What you have written is a total oxymoron.

There are some important conceptual failures here. A works salvationist is trying to earn favour through their works
or behaviour before the Lord. There are apocrophal books which say Abraham balanced his good deeds against his
evil deeds and the angels argued over where he was to go when he died, heaven or hell based on this.

Unfortunately protestants who are saved by faith, regard this faith saves them.
But the feature of this faith is it produces works, behaviour that is pleasing to God. It is this behaviour that validates
the faith, shows its worth as compared to passive faith which produces nothing and is regarded by James as dead.

Now Jesus's gift of forgiveness through the cross is a work of grace, mercy, a free gift, but it must be validated
by a contrite, believing purified heart which walks in His ways.

Now for easy believists or free gracers, they regard this connection as works salvation, a human effort which devalues
Christs work on the cross. Our view is this connection shows the faith is real, a gift of God that leads to eternal life.

The theology of the heart, spirit and flesh differs as well, as well as our walk in Christ, resolution of sinful behaviour,
and fellowship of Gods people. The free gracers tend to view working faith believers as the enemy, stopping people
entering into a wonderful relationship of acceptance and love in Christ. And for some, legalism, the emphasis on rules
and check sheets, can lead to self righteousness and self justification. Sadly this happens everywhere but Gods elect
see Jesus, His word and listen to Him. It is why the elect come from all positions, yet know Jesus as their Lord and their
hearts burn for righteous walking, walking in love and working faith, Amen.

There is reason for all these different insights, but can also be inappropriately applied, and cause harm to our fellowship
and encouragement, one with another.

You’re Catholic? That explains everything.

VCO · Aug 6, 2019

dcontroversal said:

If you believe Three of the Soils, have the potential to produce the some GOOD FRUIT. How do you square that with these verses, that is YET ANOTHER Verses of Scripture that is and ABSOLUTELY 100% TRUTH, that gives us the percentages:

Matthew 7:13-14 (CSBBible)
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction [hades/hell, Mat. 10:28],
and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.

The only way you can have the Parable of the Gates in total agreement with the Parable of the Sower, is to have three of the SOILS that do not produce any good FRUIT. Otherwise you create by your interpretation, a major contradiction.

FollowHisSteps · Aug 6, 2019

BillG said:

The apocroyphal book is called "The Testament of Abraham"
It is suggested this is where Muhammed got the idea of balancing good and bad deeds upon
which he founded the idea of who makes it into paradise or not. I was surprised by this but
it is a legitimate source.

I came across it when studying what did Muhammed borrow from to create the Koran, and to
be honest though it is claimed it came from an angel and Muhammed could not read, it looks
like Muhammed knew these stories and dictated quite a few of them.

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