about forgiveness

What are your reactions to the following:




Luke 17:3

“Take heed to yourselves:

If your brother [or sister] trespass against you,

rebuke him [or her];

and if he [or she] repents,

forgive him [or her].”



Food for thought...

Christine



============================================================



The most creative power given to the human spirit is the power to heal the wounds of a past it cannot change.



We do our forgiving alone inside our hearts and minds; what happens to the people we forgive depends on them.



The first person to benefit from forgiving is the one who does it.



Forgiving happens it three stages: we rediscover the humanity of the person who wronged us; we surrender our right to get even; and we wish that person well.



Forgiving is a journey; the deeper the wound, the longer the journey.



Forgiving does not require us to reunite with the person who broke our trust.



We do not forgive because we are supposed to; we forgive when we are ready to be healed.



Waiting for someone to repent before we forgive is to surrender our future to the person who wronged us.



Forgiving is not a way to avoid pain, but to heal the pain.



Forgiving someone who breaks a trust does not mean that we give him his job back.



Forgiving is the only way to be fair to ourselves.



Forgivers are not doormats; to forgive a person is not a signal that we are willing to put up with what he or she does.



Forgiving is essential; talking about it is optional.



When we forgive, we set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner we set free is us.



When we forgive we walk in stride with the forgiving God.

Thank you! Yes forgiveness is essential in our walk with the Lord,without it we stay at exactly that unforgiving point in our lives. When we DON'T forgive or have emotions toward a person we feel has wronged us,they go on about life,it becomes OUR pain and OUR problem! Forgiving someone is about what comes from us! If Christ is THE FORGIVER,then how can we say we cannot forgive another. I am not unaware of this struggle myself,we are so bound up in OUR FEELINGS but when I hold onto this type of spirit I hinder God's blessings,love and work in my heart! IF JESUS FORGAVE US,HOW THEN CAN WE NOT FORGIVE ONE ANOTHER!

The Luke verse and 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and the second half of Romans 1 indicate that forgiveness is not always expected by God.

For a lot more of good rated and sorted information:
(c) facing common challenges-- https://www.box.com/s/8475ac032914e2169573

I have shared that list with thousands during the past 15 years and I am sure it was forwarded even more.

here is II Timothy 3: 1-5

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive,disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

and with regards to the 2nd half of Romans 1

ummm...only God can ultimately forgive what these scriptures are saying...Jesus was adamant we need to forgive...He was addressing believers...that is the Jews of that time trying to follow the law...as we know, Jesus addressed the heart of the law or the meaning behind it

IMO, you can hardly include the descriptions of the unsaved who will be judged for their unbelief and toss it into a discussion on forgiveness as pertains to a Christians' understanding and obedience to the injunction to forgive.

in actual fact we are not to avenge ourselves. the scriptures you are referring to are not, in fact, included in reconciliation, which is the aim of forgiveness. so what is the purpose there?

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Rom 1:21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
Rom 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
Rom 1:27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
Rom 1:30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

that has nothing to do with Jesus telling us to forgive

in fact, this is talking about people who are not saved

and here you are, if I understand you right, telling us that sometimes we do not have to forgive because of...unsaved people doing what unsaved people do?

we don't judge unsaved people

we certainly can forgive them however

but you think God tells us not to forgive because they are not saved

that is not in the Bible

in fact, you say it yourself:

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness

are we who are in Christ unrighteous?

God makes the rain to fall on both the just and the unjust

He is the judge

***The Apostle Paul wrote a lot of verses that indicated Holy Spirit urged discerning/warning judging.

And check what 1 Corinthians 6:1-11 says.

I look for the good in others and in churches,

but The Holy Spirit helps me to realize wrongs and sins to at least do intercessory prayer about.

Sometimes I have to exhort or even rebuke.

Some have responded with a rebuke against me accusing me of condemn judging.

I have never done the just mentioned.

Matthew 7:1 “Judge not, that ye be not judged.” has been misused so much by individuals

who don't want to repent towards Christ-likeness righteousness

and some of the famous Christian leaders have threatened those who oppose their teaching and life styles.

Constructive criticism is not a judging sin.

If one looks at the context of Matthew 7:1, he or she will discover that it does not apply

to what is said above about judging

and to the following statements.

True Christians will not condemn judge, but they will discern right and wrong judge so they

can do proper intercessory prayer

and do Holy Spirit urged exhortation or rebuke as

Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, and many Christian leaders have done in the past.

For the much needed church discipline to take place the discerning judging needs to be done.

Also the Bible is full of warnings about unrighteous actions and teaching being done

and such require discerning judging.

There is too much tolerance of wrongs in the Christian churches and in society.

But extreme carefulness must be done in the indicated exhorting and warning ministries.

A pastor cannot even do such without making judgments

about what Scripture to teach and how to teach it.

I do wish you would learn to use the quote feature

we are not addressing the same thing and this op is not actually about forgiveness, right?

It was about forgiveness and about when forgiveness is not done.

so where does Jesus tell us when and who not to forgive?

when Jesus hung on the cross, He included the entire world when He asked the Father to forgive those who put Him on the cross because they didn't know what they were doing

so do we condemn instead by cursing?

hmmm...what did Jesus say about cursing?

You don't read carefully from the beginning of this discussion. God shows that there are people He doesn't forgive throughout the Bible, like in the last half of Romans 1. And Jesus Christ did not forgive most of the Pharisees, only three that we know of. And there are Christians who demand forgiveness of awful sins; we don't have to obey such demands. On the Cross Jesus Christ was only talking about a small number including the soldiers. He did not include everyone in the whole world. And He did not say such as you indicated in John 17.
Very Important Teachings in John 13-17-- ETRS (7 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/8uoyanljwo4l2trjqxokxemqbgztb9hk

well not really

you called your op 'about forgiveness' and then got very busy writing about not forgiving

it is God who tells us to forgive

I'm sorry, but I really disagree with what you are saying

it is not making sense

either talk about Christian forgiveness as your op suggests or talk about the unregenerate who refuse Christ

the two are not the same

Jesus was only talking about a small number? no. He was talking about us all. that is if you believe Christ died for you sins also

you may think the teachings you link to are very important and I'm not going to take the time to read them because they have left me with the impression some sort of extra-biblical teaching is being presented if what you say has anything to do with it

I'm going to leave the thread now. I disagree with what you are presenting and never agree with scripture presented that has been conflated, had a mashup done to it and then been massaged into another meaning that does not agree with the original

one more thing though

are you the Bill Stevenson who has authored those articles?

just curious. you don't have to answer

Hopefully, you are one of those that Jesus forgives. It has been my spiritual understanding that Jesus died for the sins of the world. Regarding forgiving someone, the suggested guideline is forgiving 70 x 7. I will pray that Jesus will offer you clarity of thought on what forgiveness actually is and requires because it is becoming obvious to me that you don't have a clue.

You are very wrong. Throughout history God only had a small group of followers compared to the world population. Are you a Universalist. The Lake of Fire will not purify Hitler and other tyrants. Not even Pastor Joe Smith.

yes and many many spiritual essays and Bible study tools with Holy Spirit help starting in the Fall of 1974.

A universalist believes that all will be saved but it is only my hope and prayer that all will be saved, not that I believe that this will happen but I do know that all things are possible with God. It is, after all, God's will and desire that all will be saved.

Christian Bulliles
Rosa A. Hopkins
Yesterday at 6:00 AM ·
Christian bullies take everybody’s energy. They add a weight to what you’re already going through. They'll claim to just be speaking truth but are as a clanging gong or a crashing cymbal. They are lacking in love.
Their theology does not bring you life. They act like judge and jury and do not consider the facts. They are judgmental, and they are harsh toward the hurting. They do not celebrate your wins but rejoice over your failures, making you feel like you are possibly crazy.
They are like the friends of Job.
They perpetually miss the point and belabor details that do not matter. They misunderstand, seemingly, on purpose, and it drains you. They maintain the status quo and do not help foster a sense of accountability.
They shame the abused.
They claim positivity whilst being the most negative people you know. They are the tone police. They may outwardly follow God, but they lack love and have hard hearts. They minimize what you’re going through while also negating your right to feel as you do. They pick at gnats and swallow camels.
What is forgivable in others is inexcusable in you. They emphasize your flaws while glossing over the wrongdoing of others. What is the worst, though, is how they couch all of it is theology dressing it in robes of piety, casting you as the villain, your worst crime being that you got hurt.
For them, not reflecting shiny happiness is a great sin.
You exist to keep them comfortable not to point out where the system is broken. Their emotional regularity is thrown off by your tears, and you are of great irritation to them. They doubt what really happened to you. They make you feel crazy for experiencing the emotions you’re having. They claim so-and-so is really an upstanding citizen.
They don’t truly care about your well being but about their own. They’ll use scripture as a weapon, causing you to feel defensive. You’ll wonder why you feel triggered when hearing the word of God when you once loved it so. Like Pavlov’s dog, they’re infusing you with a trained response.
They are toxic, and there is truly nothing better than to walk away. You see that Jesus did not argue with Pharisees, and they found fault with every single thing that He did.
Even at the cross, they were still there taunting Him. This person is not your friend and the sooner you realize this the better. They will demolish your hopes and dreams and squelch them with their words, strangling the life out of them. Your faith will become dry and barren, a wasteland of sun-bleached bones and tumbleweeds.
Pride and egocentricism are at the heart of this behavior. Love is nowhere to be found.
And what is most unfortunate is that we are known for this outside our walls. The world knows. We aren’t fooling them, and they won’t look the other way.
Christian bullies will make you feel guilty but feel none of that same emotion for tearing down a brother or a sister without cause.
You stay because you care, but they have no problem with maligning you with no evidence. They accuse you with no reason to do so while using your own hurt feelings as leverage against you.
You are moved with compassion over the bully, but I can assure you that he or she does not feel the same about you. Unfortunately, Christian bullies are in our midst, whitewashed tombs that look good on the outside but are filled with skeletal remains on the inside.
Jesus died to take that from you, as He came to give you life and life more abundant.The enemy comes only to steal, kill, and destroy, so let the ashes go back to ashes and kick the dust from your shoes as you leave the bullies who are in Christian in name only behind you. You’ve got too much living to do.
Don't engage with death.
Stay Gutsy,
Rosa