The Tabernacle in the Wilderness
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I did not say Jesus said one must be born of Spirit and Spirit and Jesus also did not say one must be born of water baptism and Spirit either. The Holy Spirit is the source of spiritual washing/cleansing, hence the "born of water." *Don't overlook John 4:10.14; 7:37-39.
You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine and stop building biased doctrine on pet verses, while ignoring other passages of scripture. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
You forget about spiritual washing/cleansing, which is accomplished by the Holy Spirit and not plain, ordinary H20. Titus 3:5 says "washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit." You only seem to understand plain H20 and miss the spiritual application.
You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine and stop building biased doctrine on pet verses, while ignoring other passages of scripture. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
You forget about spiritual washing/cleansing, which is accomplished by the Holy Spirit and not plain, ordinary H20. Titus 3:5 says "washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit." You only seem to understand plain H20 and miss the spiritual application.
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Consider the following (if "water-baptism" were "the gospel"... why then...)
1 Corinthians 1:17 -
"17 For Christ did not send me [Paul] to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of discourse, so that the cross of the Christ should not be emptied of its power."
Acts 18:24-28 -
24 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John; 26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27 And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren [having] encouraged him [or, 'having pre-turned ' him - G4389 - protrepsamenoi] and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace, 28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
Colossians 2:12 - [addressed to "the Church which is His body"]
"buried with Him in the baptism" [His DEATH (see also Rom6:3--nothing about "water-baptism" here, only "baptized into Jesus Christ" and "baptized into HIS DEATH")]
Ephesians 4:5 -
"one Lord, one faith, one baptism"
1 Corinthians 1:17 -
"17 For Christ did not send me [Paul] to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of discourse, so that the cross of the Christ should not be emptied of its power."
Acts 18:24-28 -
24 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John; 26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27 And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren [having] encouraged him [or, 'having pre-turned ' him - G4389 - protrepsamenoi] and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace, 28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
Colossians 2:12 - [addressed to "the Church which is His body"]
"buried with Him in the baptism" [His DEATH (see also Rom6:3--nothing about "water-baptism" here, only "baptized into Jesus Christ" and "baptized into HIS DEATH")]
Ephesians 4:5 -
"one Lord, one faith, one baptism"
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Well ain't that the kettle calling the pot black!
So if you actually did this you would become a true worshipper: that is a Pentecostal Christian both water baptised for the
remission of your sins and baptised in the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in a new tongue.
You would have signs following your remarkable conversion such as numerous miracles, healings and many blessings to
answered prayer.
You would gladly lay hands on the sick and pray for those in need seeking the victory in Christ Jesus.
At your church meetings you would operate the three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit - speaking in an unknown tongue, followed
by an interpretation and also the gift of prophecy.
So if you actually did this you would become a true worshipper: that is a Pentecostal Christian both water baptised for the
remission of your sins and baptised in the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in a new tongue.
You would have signs following your remarkable conversion such as numerous miracles, healings and many blessings to
answered prayer.
You would gladly lay hands on the sick and pray for those in need seeking the victory in Christ Jesus.
At your church meetings you would operate the three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit - speaking in an unknown tongue, followed
by an interpretation and also the gift of prophecy.
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Why do so many professing to be Christians argue against water baptism by full immersion?
It is scriptural. We can all read the numerous verse references to water baptism from Jesus to his disciples.
Even the Roman Catholics baptised by full immersion until the Black Plague when they switched over to infant sprinkling.
Water baptism has always been part of Christian history and Christian doctrine.
Who is reinventing Christian salvation these days? Departing from sound doctrine.
It is scriptural. We can all read the numerous verse references to water baptism from Jesus to his disciples.
Even the Roman Catholics baptised by full immersion until the Black Plague when they switched over to infant sprinkling.
Water baptism has always been part of Christian history and Christian doctrine.
Who is reinventing Christian salvation these days? Departing from sound doctrine.
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If this were true wouldn't we see this reflected in the word?
Once the Holy Ghost was given on the Day of Pentecost there would be no need to administer water baptism to individuals. However, in the case of the Jews, Gentiles and Samaritans (all groups of people from whom all of mankind originates) the recorded rebirth experience included both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost.
Once the Holy Ghost was given on the Day of Pentecost there would be no need to administer water baptism to individuals. However, in the case of the Jews, Gentiles and Samaritans (all groups of people from whom all of mankind originates) the recorded rebirth experience included both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost.
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Preaching the gospel, that includes the necessity to get water baptized, and administering baptisms are two separate ministries.
Concerning Acts 18:24-28 - Apollos had to be instructed that those baptized of John had to be re-baptized into the name of Jesus Christ. We see this reflected in Paul's interaction with the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19
"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Acts 19:2-6
We know that the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. We associate with His death through repentance, His burial though being "buried" under the water in baptism, and resurrection through the Holy Spirit which He imparts to the born again Christian.
Concerning Acts 18:24-28 - Apollos had to be instructed that those baptized of John had to be re-baptized into the name of Jesus Christ. We see this reflected in Paul's interaction with the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19
"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Acts 19:2-6
We know that the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. We associate with His death through repentance, His burial though being "buried" under the water in baptism, and resurrection through the Holy Spirit which He imparts to the born again Christian.
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I don't believe Acts 18 is showing that Apollos got "re-baptized-in-water".
Then, in
Acts 19 -
1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interior and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”
“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 “Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.
“The baptism of John,” they replied.
4 Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5 On hearing this, they were baptized into [eis] the name of the Lord Jesus. [compare 1Cor10:2 "into/unto Moses"] 6 And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
[Paul - "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of discourse, so that the cross of the Christ should not be emptied of its power." 1Cor1:17]
Then, in
Acts 19 -
1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interior and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”
“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 “Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.
“The baptism of John,” they replied.
4 Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5 On hearing this, they were baptized into [eis] the name of the Lord Jesus. [compare 1Cor10:2 "into/unto Moses"] 6 And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
[Paul - "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of discourse, so that the cross of the Christ should not be emptied of its power." 1Cor1:17]
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We know that Apollos did begin water baptizing in Jesus' name because of Paul's comments in his letter to the Corinthians:
1 Cor 1:12-16
"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED IN THE NAME of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine OWN NAME.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
Paul's comments above indicate they were baptized in the name of Jesus and therefore expressing that they belonged to anyone but Jesus was wrong.
Even though Paul's main ministry was to preach the gospel the biblical record does indicate that he did in some cases water baptize.
1 Cor 1:12-16
"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED IN THE NAME of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine OWN NAME.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
Paul's comments above indicate they were baptized in the name of Jesus and therefore expressing that they belonged to anyone but Jesus was wrong.
Even though Paul's main ministry was to preach the gospel the biblical record does indicate that he did in some cases water baptize.
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The words of Christ in Matthew 28:19 are not enough for you? See also 1 John 5:7 (KJV).
Both the Didache and Justin Martyr from the second century confirm that Christian baptism was in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. And Church History also confirms this.
Both the Didache and Justin Martyr from the second century confirm that Christian baptism was in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. And Church History also confirms this.
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I can't provide evidence from the Bible, (specifically from the New Testament) that anyone used the exact words from Matthew 28:19 to water baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and in the name of the Holy Spirit. However, what you are doing is making what is known in "logic" an argument from silence. In other words, no one can present proof of a negative assertion.
For example, if you say to me, "Show me in the book of Acts where anybody stated that Jesus Christ was God." I could not do it but Jesus is identifed as God in the Bible at other places which means your argument is baseless.
So, let's deal with what we do know wansvic. Since your a real big fan of the word, "COMMAND" what does Jesus Christ clearly say at Matthew 28:20? "teaching them (that is the disciples first) to observe ALL THAT I COMMANDED YOU; and lo, I am with you always even to the end of the age." So did He, or did He not say to water baptize in the (singular) name (or under the authorty) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? Now what are you going to say or do? Let me guess, Matthew 28:19 is a mistranslation with very little manuscript support and should not be in the Bible in the first place?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
For example, if you say to me, "Show me in the book of Acts where anybody stated that Jesus Christ was God." I could not do it but Jesus is identifed as God in the Bible at other places which means your argument is baseless.
So, let's deal with what we do know wansvic. Since your a real big fan of the word, "COMMAND" what does Jesus Christ clearly say at Matthew 28:20? "teaching them (that is the disciples first) to observe ALL THAT I COMMANDED YOU; and lo, I am with you always even to the end of the age." So did He, or did He not say to water baptize in the (singular) name (or under the authorty) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? Now what are you going to say or do? Let me guess, Matthew 28:19 is a mistranslation with very little manuscript support and should not be in the Bible in the first place?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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The biblical record is the absolute authority.
We are told via the word that in order to establish a concept it must be witnessed at least 2 to 3 times. (Matt 18:16; 2Cor 13:1)
There is not even one, let alone 2 or 3 occurrences of the use of the phrase "the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost" being stated during administration of water baptisms. Knowing this one can only conclude that Jesus meant that His own name should be used. Why? Because every water baptism recorded was administered in the name of the Lord.
The word instructs us that everything we do in word and deed is to be done in the name of Jesus. Col 3:17
The word also gives another clue when it states that in Jesus dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9
We are told via the word that in order to establish a concept it must be witnessed at least 2 to 3 times. (Matt 18:16; 2Cor 13:1)
There is not even one, let alone 2 or 3 occurrences of the use of the phrase "the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost" being stated during administration of water baptisms. Knowing this one can only conclude that Jesus meant that His own name should be used. Why? Because every water baptism recorded was administered in the name of the Lord.
The word instructs us that everything we do in word and deed is to be done in the name of Jesus. Col 3:17
The word also gives another clue when it states that in Jesus dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9
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