Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
You say all the branch in this parable are clean
Verse 2 ..............every branch that bear fruit He purge it
Mean some branch need to be purge or clean
Mean not clean yet.
And you do not believe fire mean hell, what is fire in this parable mean?
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Sometimes people do not realize how people from the Mediterranean area speak, it is far more expressive than English
Example:
29Is not My word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that smashes a rock?”
Jeremiah 23:29
Do you think this is about hell?
I guessed that.
But I understand what you are saying or trying to say.
Where do you live?
If memory serves me is it towards eastern Europe?
Yep galatian 5 say the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love etc
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
So when we abide in Him we will bear these fruit
Love,joy,peace etc
Some people may say, Jesus lie, my non Christian friend (not abide in Him) but produce fruit of love, helping needy, how Jesus say branch can not bear fruit of itself?
Love in this verse is agape love, love to the point that He willing to die on the cross for His enemy
Can your friend produce that kind of love?
Only if a man abide in Him able to bear that kind of fruit.
Example
Stephen, he pray ask forgiveness for his enemy, like Jesus did on the cross, because he abide in jesus
I am aware that not every fire in the Bible mean hell, but in john 15, I believe it is
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Well then that is your prerogative, but then scripture becomes very inconsistent because a born again believer can never lose of forfeit their salvation.
I am from Indonesia but I live in Arizona, if the Lord willing I will be back to Indonesia in the next 3 years.
“Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD. For he will be like a tree planted by the water, That extends its roots by a stream And will not fear when the heat comes; But its leaves will be green, And it will not be anxious in a year of drought Nor cease to yield fruit.”
“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Seems that one is a fruit bearer, one is not.
Know Jesus, know fruit.
No Jesus, no fruit.
“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Seems that one is a fruit bearer, one is not.
Know Jesus, know fruit.
No Jesus, no fruit.
Hi there, so you too is from SEA, am also a Filipino but here in the Philippines.. The context of John 15 is not about salvation, it's about fruit bearing. The word abide, abode simply means dwell. In this sense, not all that dwells can be be said to be a part. This means a lice in my hair/head cannot be said to be a part of my body. In essense v6. is referring to those who are not really a part and therefore they are not bringing fruit, fruitless, hence they are cast forth. The one that abides are of course the saved and bears fruit. No lost salvation for the saved but for the unsaved are worthy of cutting off since to begin with they are not a part of the branch.
God bless
Hi again Jackson,
I think Galatians 5 focuses on the fruit not the root. It is important to know that the root receives it's life. It is where the tree/plants absorbs vital nutrients to grow and when it grows and sturdy, it blossoms and bear fruit.
sins of believers are committed deliberately via one's free will and must be repented or they will not be forgiven .. Christ died to "pay the punishment debt due Adam's and Eve's sin" .. as for Ananias and Sapphira, they knew and were believers and sinned against the Holy Spirit in their lying and dropped dead .. they would be in the lake of fire for eternity .. have any of you committed UNREPENTANT adultery, murder, lying, theft, and the many many other sins .. if you have done so and have not repented and do not repent, you will be among the other believers consigned to the lake of fire for their unrepentant sinfulness .. REPENT or PERISH is real[/QU
I guess my point is that God deals with his children so the whole becoming "the worst sinner in the world" is the wrong perspective.[/QUOTE]
I agree it is the wrong perspective - I had mentioned it only because I have told that line by one person here on CC.
It seems to me from a simply earthly perspective - any gift is very returnable - just give it back to the person who gave it -- but just because you gave it back does not mean they did not give it as a gift!