Do you want the truth? Here is the truth about eschatology
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Clearly the mark according to chapter 19 is those who buy the sign as believing lying wonders as a false source of faith hearing God.
The Sunday dispute has much to do with the ceremonial law in respect to manna as the weekly fast .Much has been lost according to my understanding. The word sabbath as to its meaning would seem to have been the first thing destroyed . The word sabbath simply means rest. Men have turned it into a time sensitive substituting rest with the word week, destroying the purpose of the word.
It applies to all what some call "sign gifts" . Two words that do not become one . Sign are de designed for those who rebel. Prophecy for those who do believe. No such thing as a sign gift to include a certain day of the week .Signs for believers follow prophecy. sign as a curse, yes. Curses are not gifts as some hope for. .
The Sunday dispute has much to do with the ceremonial law in respect to manna as the weekly fast .Much has been lost according to my understanding. The word sabbath as to its meaning would seem to have been the first thing destroyed . The word sabbath simply means rest. Men have turned it into a time sensitive substituting rest with the word week, destroying the purpose of the word.
It applies to all what some call "sign gifts" . Two words that do not become one . Sign are de designed for those who rebel. Prophecy for those who do believe. No such thing as a sign gift to include a certain day of the week .Signs for believers follow prophecy. sign as a curse, yes. Curses are not gifts as some hope for. .
Good day azamzimtoti,
I totally agree with your inference here regarding the temple. An interesting observation regarding this is that, though John is told to measure the temple and count the worshipers there, it is not recorded that he does this. For neither the measurements nor the number of worshipers are provided. Therefore, I believe the scripture is written as a clue, not for purposes of knowing the measurements or the number of worshipers, but for the purpose of demonstrating that there will be a future temple during that time.
I totally agree with your inference here regarding the temple. An interesting observation regarding this is that, though John is told to measure the temple and count the worshipers there, it is not recorded that he does this. For neither the measurements nor the number of worshipers are provided. Therefore, I believe the scripture is written as a clue, not for purposes of knowing the measurements or the number of worshipers, but for the purpose of demonstrating that there will be a future temple during that time.
Since John was seeing his visions and writing Revelation long after Herod's temple was destroyed, it should be obvious that he was seeing the future temple which will be hijacked by the Antichrist. This is confirmed by 42 months in Rev 11:2 and also 42 months in Rev 13:5. That is 3 1/2 years which are assigned to Satan and the Antichrist. For more on this see the book of Daniel.
I don't see how giving a blanket response "(Rev.9:13-Rev.11:14)" answers the question of whether the temple that John was told to measure and the one that Jesus spoke was not one and the same or not.
I'd have to give you a "lol" for that response.
(Rev 11:2 “But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.)
We know the war of 66-70AD was around 42 months.
(Mat 24:2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” )
So how are these not the same temple?
I'd have to give you a "lol" for that response.
(Rev 11:2 “But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.)
We know the war of 66-70AD was around 42 months.
(Mat 24:2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” )
So how are these not the same temple?
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Well, then if your giving me a free lol/coupon I'll reserve it for later use.
I don't see how you would not see the first five words of post #309(I wouldn't think that it does), or (I would think...) to be a "blanket response", they seem blunt to me. See if you can determine in Revelation when the first woe begins and ends,then when the second woe begins and ends and then the same with the third(it's not that clear/easy to do). https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/12.htm (you can click the arrows to go back to chapter 9 or forward the next ones).
If I don't respond quickly I'm about 60 miles west of Barry and so I'm going to be in and out doing things.
Then just back up to Post #453 and #457 page 24 and take what your saying "Jerusalem is Babylon" and see how it compares to Revelation 11:1(what your asking) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/11.htm . Now in Rev. 17:8 a beast is in the pit and in Rev. 9 locust and their king come up from the abyss but in Rev.11 the one that came up from the abyss has already ascended out of the abyss and is killing witnesses in Jerusalem and not Jews who denied Christ.
measuring is often associated with impending judgement ((ex. Amos 7:8)) -- which fits with the outer court not being measured because the gentiles will trample on the holy city for 42 months. could it be that this tells us they are not being judged during this space of time, but what is symbolized by the temple with its worshipers is? and what does this have to do with the ministry of the two witnesses? instead of what i would expect - John measuring the temple 'with its worshipers' ((odd detail eh)) we get the two witnesses. what do they have to do with this measurement?
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Each of the trumpets has a plague of wrath attached to it and the seventh trumpet is no different. After the seventh trumpet sounds, there is first a pre celebration and praise to God. Then in chapter 12 Israel is introduced as a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. Then we are introduced to a red dragon who is symbolically representing Satan as the orchestrator behind the seven heads and the ten horns. This is all related information, but is not the 3rd woe itself. It is Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven to the earth which is the result of the 7th trumpet and is in fact the 3rd woe.
"Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time.”
Immediately after the results of the 5th trumpet it is stated "The first woe has passed. Behold, two woes are still to follow." The two woes to follow are of course the results of the 6th and 7th trumpet. After the 6th trumpet which the result being a third of the earths population being killed, there is other related information such as the angel with the little scroll and the two witnesses. After this information the following is stated: "The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming shortly," which is referring to the result of the 6th seal which as previously stated will be a third of the inhabitants of the earth being killed.
The 7th trumpet does not have an acknowledgment stating that the 3rd woe has passed, as it does with trumpets 5 and 6. Chapter 12 verse 12 is the 3rd woes announcement "but woe to the earth and the sea."
First Trumpet = A third of the earth and trees are burned up (with an unknown amount of fatalities)
Second Trumpet = A third of the creatures in the sea die and a third of the ships are destroyed (with an unknown amount of fatalities)
Third Trumpet = A third of the rivers and springs of water are contaminated (with an unknown amount of fatalities)
Four Trumpet = A third of the sun, moon and stars are darkened with the stars (asteroids/meteorites) falling to the earth
Fifth Trumpet/1st woe = Demonic beings released from the Abyss to torment the inhabitants of the earth (no fatalities)
(The first woe has passed. Behold, two woes are still to follow)
Sixth Trumpet/2nd woe = A third of mankind killed by four fallen angels and their army of 200 million
Parenthetic pauses = Information regarding the angel and the little scroll and the two witnesses
(The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming shortly)
Seventh Trumpet/3rd woe = Satan and his angels cast out of heaven to the earth which affects the entire last 3 1/2 years
The third woe = but woe to the earth and the sea. Why? because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”
"Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time.”
Immediately after the results of the 5th trumpet it is stated "The first woe has passed. Behold, two woes are still to follow." The two woes to follow are of course the results of the 6th and 7th trumpet. After the 6th trumpet which the result being a third of the earths population being killed, there is other related information such as the angel with the little scroll and the two witnesses. After this information the following is stated: "The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming shortly," which is referring to the result of the 6th seal which as previously stated will be a third of the inhabitants of the earth being killed.
The 7th trumpet does not have an acknowledgment stating that the 3rd woe has passed, as it does with trumpets 5 and 6. Chapter 12 verse 12 is the 3rd woes announcement "but woe to the earth and the sea."
First Trumpet = A third of the earth and trees are burned up (with an unknown amount of fatalities)
Second Trumpet = A third of the creatures in the sea die and a third of the ships are destroyed (with an unknown amount of fatalities)
Third Trumpet = A third of the rivers and springs of water are contaminated (with an unknown amount of fatalities)
Four Trumpet = A third of the sun, moon and stars are darkened with the stars (asteroids/meteorites) falling to the earth
Fifth Trumpet/1st woe = Demonic beings released from the Abyss to torment the inhabitants of the earth (no fatalities)
(The first woe has passed. Behold, two woes are still to follow)
Sixth Trumpet/2nd woe = A third of mankind killed by four fallen angels and their army of 200 million
Parenthetic pauses = Information regarding the angel and the little scroll and the two witnesses
(The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming shortly)
Seventh Trumpet/3rd woe = Satan and his angels cast out of heaven to the earth which affects the entire last 3 1/2 years
The third woe = but woe to the earth and the sea. Why? because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”
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I notice that if speaking about Revelation 11:1 that it has become natural for those who adhere to one camp's thinking to approach it as towards proof that the Revelation was given before ad70. At the same time when speaking about it from another camp's motivation it is usually explained in a manner to show proof it was written after ad70.
To me though I see it as if he is being told he must prophecy again as if it had already been prophesied and so look for it elsewhere in the Bible. I notice that in Zechariah 1,2,3,4. ect. that there are the many of the same things spoken of ,flying scroll/little book,lamps/witnesses,,temple ect. as are found in these chapters of Revelation. And so I notice that the opposing camps have their interest in this but I see it as though John is being given additional information in Revelation about what is in Zechariah.
