Who is Israel

I would have still ignored it.

she is posting in fluent English a number of coherently argued points in individual threads, complete with scripture references, all of which she first laid out in a list of what she intended to post in her first introduction thread.

What does that tell you?
What does it tell us that a woman posting from Haiti speaks very good English and has a definite plan to lay out systematically a series of threads giving non-traditional interpretation and theological stances on ten or twelve common areas of interest?

I think we have a missionary who has joined the forum, possibly a 'Black Hebrew Israelite' one.

I don't think insulting Haiti or people of color is the right response.

How would you get someone like that to open up a dialog with you?

While I understand what you mean, Jesus was a Jew and it matters if people are saying He was something He wasn't. He wasn't a white American either, for that matter. He was Jewish.

Israel is a new name He named His bride. It is used to represent a new creature. God who first named Israel. . . . Jacob . . .a word that defines a deceiver or one who grasp the heel of the first born, having it according to the flesh in respect to Esau .

Together they represent the wrestling of flesh and blood. Natural unconverted man waring after the flesh the out of sight out of mind
The gospel of Cain sacrificing Abel the second born. in the garden .( No faith that comes from hearing God.)

In order to preach the gospel it would seem we are given a parable that represents the last new name he named His bride . The promised name he named us in Acts; Christian.

God having intervened between the two brothers of flesh that were trying to kill each other off. It as a parable was set aside to introduce the work of the gospel working in the new heart of men to both will and do the good pleasure of Christ in whom we are yoked with.

And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. Genesis32:24-25

Jacob wrestled with a man in a vision. . . a form of prophecy . . who touched the hollow of a bone . And either touched him literally and had a limp . Or the hollow of the bone as the purifying factory for the blood as marrow and it moved Jacob from His heart, out of joint not familiar with . Like in a broken spirit dries up the bone?

And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Genesis32:26- 28

The power to walk by faith the unseen .The Christians power within them.

And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh. Genesis32:30 -31

Face to face, the full knowledge of God as a perfect law.

Because he gives us the vision as a commandment not to wrestles against flesh and blood we can trust him .Without him we can do nothing but wrestle against flesh and blood like Jacob and Esau .or wives and husbands

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Sorry… The color inside the frame or the way I framed it . Im' a Heinz 57.

again, I think it would be helpful if new people would not be allowed to take over the forums with multiple threads ESPECIALLY if they are here to teach and that teaching is their own idea of truth which is not found anywhere near the Bible

it's like getting junk mail that falls out of your mailbox

they have to have an audience and right now this forum is it

apparently

Maybe the problem is that they are teaching what their thoughts are based on what they interpret what the Bible is saying.

That is their truth according to the Bible.
To them its not lie.

I do no believe works save us, nor baptism.

That's the truth (not baptism but thought works did).

If it's not wacky and out of the box and can be defended then it cannot be stopped, but discussed.

well yeah that is what they are doing

obviously when someone is not teaching scripture but a perversion of it or an alternate understanding that is so obviously off base, they have not been called of God to do so

the Holy Spirit does not lead into error but I will grant many are led into error

I guess we can conclude 'believe not every spirit'...ie stick to the word and not the little voice in your head

What matters is. . . was it was corrupted .or typified as sinful, ageing in a dying process. Jesus in John 6 declared what the eyes sees does not profit as if it was the spiritual work .

I think in order to perfect the law as one complete new Law. . the letter of the law must be satisfied for it kills. . . showing mankind dead in their trespasses and sin without a living abiding hope of God in this corrupted world. The law of faith mixed with the letter of the law does make it perfect or complete.

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Mixing the "letter of the law" the things seen with the "law of faith" the unseen understanding is in effect believing God, In accordance according to His three day labor of love as a demonstration of that Love . Not after the corrupted flesh, but after the living Spirit.

The law of the Lord is perfect, "converting the soul": the testimony of the Lord is sure, "making wise the simple".
The statutes of the Lord are right, "rejoicing the heart": the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.he fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults .Psalm 19:8-12

Ummm, I said Jesus was a Jew...?

When Jesus came to Israel two thousand years ago Israel was undeniably the Jewish nation, even though they rejected Him almost completely. I think we should stick to this definition of Israel first because it is biblical, and also because it makes sense. Please stay focused on the Jewish nation and do not neglect praying for Israel, that they may repent and turn to Jesus their King for the good of all humanity. This was Paul's greatest hope, he even went as far as saying he is willing to be completely cut off from Christ if it meant salvation for the Israelites (Romans 9). From my point of view this is clearly the only way to see it that makes sense. I hope that I am not missing anything important, and please correct me if I said something wrong.

amen it's important to realize that to them, it is true. they believe what they say.
and to figure out why they believe it.

i get the idea people sometimes aren't quite teaching what they think but are teaching what they've been taught.
like, the OP put scriptures from Song of Songs like they were a proof about Solomon, but they are actually not about him at all. and put scriptures from Lamentations as though they were proof about natural color of skin being black, tho they are about the blackness of skin being unnatural. in either case if the OP had read the verses in their context, they would know that the section of Song of Songs is about Solomon's beloved, not him, and that the natural color of the princes of Israel was described as white, and that the lament spoke of famine blackening their skin.
so why would someone put those things - readily disproven - as proof? no one would read these books, come upon these verses while reading, and think ah that's proof! but if someone told you that's what it means, and didn't give you the whole context, and you didn't read it yourself, or you didn't understand it when you read it, so you believed what you were told - then you might go around deceived, spreading these things like proof of something that they aren't.

so when i see people giving arguments with holes you can drive a herd of cattle through, i think it's not their argument, but an argument someone else convinced them of, because they didn't think about the holes in it for some reason when they heard it first. and in that case they usually can't really defend it - because it's not really what they thought of, it's what they were told, and they believed it because they were told persuasively - not because they were persuaded by study.
maybe that's sort of a benefit-of-the-doubt thing but is it pragmatic to know? like, if i knew that i was talking to someone who hadn't really understood what they were saying, i might be gentler than with someone who i thought was deliberately misrepresenting things.. and 'a gentle answer turns away wrath' but 'starting a quarrel is like breaching a dam'

I agree.........I also believe that no more than two threads should be allowed at any given time on page one by any poster......and new people should not be allowed to come in with guns ablaze......and or peddling long winded I know it all threads or pushing Youtube channels etc....

I agree 100%. It matters if ppl are saying He is something that He is not. I suppose my focus is that He is our Savior, that His Character and Integrity are blameless, regardless. However, good point, He was definitely Jewish and that point He makes clear in His word, over and over, and it is important. I am just so thankful that in Him we are one. I'm glad you understood what I was trying to convey.

sounds like a plan

alas

we are a captive audience



they'll never take me alive....

England believes that they are the descendants of David, and of the tribe of Judah, and the throne of David moved to England giving them the God given right to rule the earth.

So I suppose the United Kingdom and the African Americans are going to have to battle it out concerning who is the true Jews from the tribe of Judah, which we will call Hebrewgeddon.

Also they have a chart for 12 tribes breaking it down to what ethnic groups belong to which tribe, which how did they figure that one out, for there is no way they could if it is true they are 12 tribes, which gives testimony that they are lying concerning the chart.

Judah-Negroes
Benjamin-West Indians
Levi-Haitians
Simeon-Dominicans
Zebulon-Guatemalans to Panamanians
Ephraim-Puerto Ricans
Manasseh-Cubans
Gad-North American Indians
Reuben-Seminole Indians
Naphtali-Argentnian to Chileans
Asher-Columbians to Uruguayans
Issachar-Mexicans, which they are actually Native Indians intermixed with Spanish, Portuguese, and European nationalities in that order.

Now how are they supposed to know this, for there is no way they could even if they were really Jews.

God said He is going to bring the whole house of Jabob, all 12 tribes, and put them back on their land, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, but they will all be back in Israel starting when they became a nation again, which will happen for it is decreed by God.

So back up your bags African Americans, Latinos, and Native Americans, and the rest of you of the 12 tribes, for you are moving away to Israel, and can the land of Israel hold them.

Which the man of sin, New Age Christ, will establish peace in the Middle East and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, for the Gentiles will cause it to happen, and the man of sin wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good towards the Jews.

That means all of the 12 tribes will be going to Israel, and since African Americans are from Africa then they are Jews too, and will go to Israel.

But the Bible says the Jews will be few in number, and that is a lot of people going to Israel.

Also God said like birds flying He will pass over Jerusalem, and preserve it, the 6 day war, 1967, when fighter pilots paved the way to win the war, and they took control of Jerusalem, but there was no African American, Latino, or Native American involved with that war.

Lam 4:8 Their visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones; it is withered, it is become like a stick.
Lam 4:9 They that be slain with the sword are better than they that be slain with hunger: for these pine away, stricken through for want of the fruits of the field.

khaw-shak'
A primitive root; to be dark (as withholding light); transitively to darken: - be black, be (make) dark, darken, cause darkness, be dim, hide.

It seems like blacker than a coal is a condition of them of something that affects them negatively, and not skin color, and the way it words it blacker than a coal tells it.

It says in the Concordance that blacker means to withhold light, and be dim, hide.

Lam 5:10 Our skin was black like an oven because of the terrible famine.

Also it states here that their skin was black like an oven because of the terrible famine, not that they were born with it, and would a famine actually cause their skin to turn black, and all their offspring.

It is because of the terrible famine that their skin is black, so again it is speaking of the condition of them of something that affects them in a negative way, not skin color.

kaw-mar'
A primitive root; properly to intertwine or contract, that is, (by implication) to shrivel (as with heat); figuratively to be deeply affected with passion (love or pity): - be black, be kindled, yearn.

Again the Concordance does not state skin color.

Joe 2:5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joe 2:6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe 2:7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe 2:8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.

paw-roor'
From H6286; properly illuminated, that is, a glow; as noun, a flush (of anxiety): - blackness.

The blackness here is a condition of them that affects them in a negative way which means to be illuminated, a flush because of anxiety of the battle that comes upon them, and not skin color.

Nah 2:10 She is empty, and void, and waste: and the heart melteth, and the knees smite together, and much pain is in all loins, and the faces of them all gather blackness.

paw-roor'
From H6286; properly illuminated, that is, a glow; as noun, a flush (of anxiety): - blackness.

Again it is a condition of them, and not skin color.

So it appears when it states black it is not skin color it speaks of, but of a condition of them that results from some external condition that causes them stress, and anxiety, such as famine, or war, them being perplexed about it, and affected by it in a negative way.

Which this is cracking me up, and I almost peed my pants, and actually did a ROFL until my sides split.

Alright I am kidding about that, but it is crazy the way people clutch at straws, and believe something because they want to believe it so much, when it is obvious it is speaking of perplexing things that affect them in a negative way that refers to them being black, and not skin color.

It is right there explaining the reason for their condition, and they overlook it because they want to believe so much that it means skin color when it is not speaking of skin color.

They are black because of war, because of famine, because of situations that affect them in a negative way, and did those situations cause their skin to turn black, of course not, so it is a reference to something that affects them to where they are perplexed, and have anxiety, and discomfort, and not speaking of skin color.

Jer 8:21 For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.
Jer 8:22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

Again it is a condition that affects Jeremiah in a negative way, and not skin color, for he says because of the hurt of the daughter of his people he is hurt, and that is why it states he is black.

Did the hurt of his people cause his skin to turn black, of course not, like a famine did not cause their skin to turn black, and war did not cause their skin to turn black.

The Bible is not saying that they were born with black skin, but because of perplexing, and disturbing situations, that affected them in a negative way they were referred to as black.

So black in these scriptures is disturbing events that affect them in a negative way, and they became black, was not born black, but became like that, so it is not skin color.

Jer 14:1 The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah concerning the dearth.
Jer 14:2 Judah mourneth, and the gates thereof languish; they are black unto the ground; and the cry of Jerusalem is gone up.

bats-tso'-reth
Feminine intensive from H1219; restraint (of rain), that is, drought: - dearth, drought.

Again a condition, dearth, mourning, and languish that caused them to be black, not skin color, and also black here in the Concordance is mourning.

It is a condition that caused them to be black, war, famine, mourning, languish, the suffering of Jeremiah's people, and not skin color.

Job 30:26 When I looked for good, then evil came unto me: and when I waited for light, there came darkness.
Job 30:27 My bowels boiled, and rested not: the days of affliction prevented me.
Job 30:28 I went mourning without the sun: I stood up, and I cried in the congregation.
Job 30:29 I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
Job 30:30 My skin is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat.
Job 30:31 My harp also is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of them that weep.

Job is in a disturbing situation, and perplexed, going through a rough time, having lost his children, and affected with boils, and Job describes this situation that he is in as his skin is black upon him, but he is not speaking of his skin color, but his situation, and condition.

That is the term they used to describe the condition they were in, and what they faced, using black as a term of the situation that come upon them that affected them in a negative way, not born black.

Continued,

Continued,

They say Christ was a black man because of this.

Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

Come on now, this is not the man Christ Jesus in flesh, but Jesus when He ascended to heaven, and obtained a glorified body.

Do people think this describes Jesus in the flesh.

So why the clutching at straws, for it seems like people want to believe something that can give them a higher elevation, which claiming to be a Hebrew from the tribe of Judah, and Jesus as a man was black, and having favor of the one true God, and saying God will get you for afflicting our ancestors, and we are really special above the people of the world seems to do it for them.

The same as England believing they are descendants of David, and of the tribe of Judah, and the throne of David moved to England.

Will the ethnic groups ever stop trying to elevate their group as superior wanting to believe anything they can to support it, and not go by what God said, what makes you to differ from another person, and He is no respecter of persons, and there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile, so He looks at all people the same.

And when a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel, and there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile, so where is the special status for the Jews, although the kingdom will be restored to them in the future, but both saved Jews and Gentiles will be part of it on an equal level.

If you want an elevated position for you feel you need it to feel special use something else as a way to do it, for a Gentile that is saved is considered a Jew, and part of Israel, and above any Jew of the flesh, and on an equal level of those saved, that is part of the tribe of Judah, or any tribe.

An equal level, so where is the special status.

It does not exist so we will come join you in your street ramblings, and preach along with you, as we Gentiles are a Jew of a far superior standing than a Jew of the flesh not saved, and part of the commonwealth of Israel.

One thing you will notice is that many black Israelites preach with hatred, and revenge, instead of with love, and compassion, as if it all about revenge for them, which should not be.

So I will have to point this out.

All nations, and ethnic groups, push for power, but if they do not have the power they cry oppression, and they are cruel, but if they had the power they would push it too, which look how they push for power in their neighborhoods against their own kind.

When Egypt was in power, and African nations were in power at that time too, God does not paint a pretty picture about them, but said they were cruel.

God said they accuse, and excuse each other, which they point their finger and accuse others, and then make excuses for themselves, and their own people, but they all act the same.

All people act the same, all the while pointing out the faults of other ethnic groups, but their people do the same thing.

Oh those white people, and oh those black people, all the while they are acting the same, and you cannot blame everybody for what a few do, for they are not responsible, and not to blame for their actions.

Anybody that says oh those white people, or oh those black people, are surely prejudice, and do they forget all the good white people did for blacks, and all the good blacks did for white people, out of love, and compassion.

And since the world is based on self exaltation, selfishness, and arrogance, and they all play the same game, then white privilege does not apply, for Africans Americans will give African Americans privilege, and an ethnic group will give their own ethnic group privilege.

And white guilt does not apply for nobody is to blame for the sins of others, which if African Americans hurt, kill, or steal from a white person then they are all to blame, so see how that works.

And for anybody that would cry oppression, what oppression.

For African Americans are millionaires, billionaires, good jobs, land owners, business owners, house owners, judges, lawyers, police officers, military personnel, doctors, dentists, television stars, movie stars, musical stars, sports stars, and many admired by people whether black or white.

So what oppression are they talking about, for people that are oppressed do not have those kind of benefits provided to them.

So what is the conclusion, which this is it, they are only mad because they do not have the power, and upper hand of that ethnic group that is called Caucasian, but the Roman Empire was the last kingdom of the 7 kingdoms on earth to have the power, so they could retain it, for when the others were knocked down they could not rise again.

But people will not face up to reality when they are pursuing something out of hate, and revenge, and self exaltation, but blame, all the while their own people do the same, and want the same.